PCBs with a PhotoCopier?

[Overclocked]

According this guide (**broken link removed**, I can make PCBs with a photocopier and photopaper. Since I have neither, Ive come up with a soultion. I remember going to walmart where they had a machine where you can print photos from. It prints on photopaper. There was also a scanner, and the card slots for cameras.

So I was thinking, If I saved my PCB in a image format, and Printed it out via the walmart printer, It would work right? It is Glossy or semiglossy paper there, and really I can do it at anyplace that has those printers.

 

[philba]

I don't think that would work. Use a black and white laser printer or photocopier. If using a copier, you can use an ink jet print as the master. The kind of paper you want to use is coated. inkjet, magazine or photo paper will work ok. regular laser paper won't.

make a bunch of extra copies so you can experiment with the process.

 

[HarveyH42]

I'm sure a single print is cheap, so what the hell. Not sure what process the use to print with. I have a Dye-Sublimation printer here at home to make color prints, its three colors and a clear overcoat. If this is what they use, it won't work for etching (everything will be covered). There are inkjets that do nice photo prints, but inks a generally water soluble, again not good for etching.

I do use an HP1020 Laserjet ($129) and laminator ($24) to make decent PCBs. Tried the photopaper, but its a hassle to get the paper to seperate from the toner, usually some repair work with a pen. I bought some toner transfer paper, works great. Just have to remember to set the print density to maximum, otherwise there are a lot of small holes, no big deal for low power boards. Now, it is posable to use a regular photcoper(set darkest) and plain paper, but you get the tiny holes. Using a household iron to do the transfer to copper sux, low success rate.
And finally, clean the copper well, and don't get your grubby fingerprints on it. I polish the copper with very fine steel wool, and scrub with acetone (twice), wipe over it with a clean dry paper towel.
After etching, rinse thoroughly with much water. The toner comes of with acetone (any store selling painting supplies, its cheap).

 

[zkt_PiratesDen]

the link you posted is broke. But if its the same system I have, but have not used yet, it requires that the trace image be photo or laser copied onto a special sheet. It is then heat transfered (ironed) onto copper-clad board and etched as usual. The photo or laser toner is actually some kind of plastic stuff that the heat transfers to the copper blaank. Inkjet ink isnt waterproof and wont work. If you could convince the owner of the equipment to let you use your own "paper" you`re all set.

 

[Overclocked]

the link you posted is broke. But if its the same system I have, but have not used yet, it requires that the trace image be photo or laser copied onto a special sheet. It is then heat transfered (ironed) onto copper-clad board and etched as usual. The photo or laser toner is actually some kind of plastic stuff that the heat transfers to the copper blaank. Inkjet ink isnt waterproof and wont work. If you could convince the owner of the equipment to let you use your own "paper" you`re all set.

Thats odd
homepage:**broken link removed**

Its in projects.

Hmm Guess I could give it a try, I mean Hell what do I have to lose? Lets see, I know Office max has copiers (Copy Max) and they have a photo printer, Walmart has one, CVS, and probably other places.. I'll Come up with a Small PCB Project, like a 555 Timer or something and see how that goes.

 

[zkt_PiratesDen]

I donno works now
interesting photo
If you need a project how bout designing a sot28 to a pdip adapter board.
I just happen to need one.

 

[mramos1]

ZKT, link is broke again.. Just tried it.

Overclocked. Laser printer works fine (photo copier) NOT a photo printer or inkjet.

I had my laser printer die and ran to Kinkos (Fedex company in US) with an inkjet copy and paid like $.75 for a sheet with 30 boards on it for a project, they photo copied it for me on "my" inkjet photo paper (I brought with me) on their laser (toner) copier.

I made 30 boards.

When the link comes back I will look at it.

Philba is right. It is not a photo. It is photo paper in a Laser (toner) printer. You iron the toner from the photo paper on the copper board.

So if you print it on inkjet, go to a laser (toner black and white) copy center and tell them print it on inkjet photo paper, on a toner machine it will probaby work.

 

[Overclocked]

So then it wont work? Isnt a photoprinter just a laser printer with photo paper? They do have regular sized photopaper, not the 3x5 cards.

I usualy go to Copy Max.

I found photo paper for 4 bucks for 30 at staples.https://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/...10051&langId=-1&productId=15593&cmArea=SEARCH

So your telling me If I go to copy max and ask them If I could use that paper, They will let me? I know they have lasers, since the noticed the paper comes off the printer warm. I can just print it out here, and then copy it on to that paper.

Alright, I'll try it that way then.

 

[philba]

No, a photo printer will either be an inkjet or dye sumlimation. I know inkjet wont work for a fact (long story about switched print outs). Dye sub wont work either. just use a regular photocopier or laser printer set, as has been said several times, on as dark as you can get.

 

[HarveyH42]

Inkjet photo paper is coated so the surface is smooth, and the inks do soak and bleed. The reason for using this kind of paper with toner (a plastic type polymer), is that it doesn't get embedded into the paper fibers (as much as regular paper. When you heat/press the pattern onto the board, the toner remelts onto the copper. You soak the paper in water, it breaks down (slightly) and releases from the toner and copper board, which don't mind water.
Some of the paper will still be stuck to the toner, no biggie, but make sure the bare copper is really bare (wet paper rubs off the copper easy). Don't get too rough around the traces, if the board wasn't super clean, toner might flake off. If you do have some bad spots, just touch up with a Sharpie, or permenant marker.

 

[Jack Luminous]

I've been getting copies made at Kinko's - using their paper. I just ask for 'the glossiest paper' they have, buy a few sheets and run it through their self-serve machines at ten cents a copy (after a few test runs on normal paper to set the darkness level). It is fairly thick paper, but it works out fine. I just need to use some extra pressure, time, and heat when ironing it to the copper board.

 

[mramos1]

I've been getting copies made at Kinko's - using their paper. I just ask for 'the glossiest paper' they have, buy a few sheets and run it through their self-serve machines at ten cents a copy (after a few test runs on normal paper to set the darkness level). It is fairly thick paper, but it works out fine. I just need to use some extra pressure, time, and heat when ironing it to the copper board.

Yea, even with mine, I press hard and iron until I can barely see the outline of the traces.

I will try other papers when I run out. Epson has great photo paper and I have tons of it.

My laser die last hurricane, and I went to Kinkos and had them copy a board on my paper, it was like $.18 (two copies), was sort of funny.. The gas costs more.

 

[mister_e]

Personnaly, i use transparency film on a ink-jet printer. Works a treat. It could work with a Laser printer, i did some test before but, my printer did pretty bad job on 10-14 mils traces. i suspected the toner.. One some case it worked perfectly, but on some other, some traces where badly cut in the middle.

Too bad, i use the transparency film now. Yeah those you can find a Staples or else, dedicated for InkJet printer.

 

[philba]

I assume you don't try to transfer the ink jet printout...

be carefull about running inkjet transparencies through the laser printer - the heat does nasty things to them.

 

[mister_e]

Hehe, nope i never use any transfer paper, i use those presensitived board and UV neons to do the PCBs. A bit longer and a bit much expensive but the films (kind of) may be use again, again and again.

 

[3v0]

I do use an HP1020 Laserjet ($129) and laminator ($24) to make decent PCBs...

Do you use the default setup for the HP1020.
I did not find anyplace to change the print density.

 

[HarveyH42]

Nope, you need to go to Windows Control Panel, click the Printers and faxes icon, right click your printer. At the botom should be 'Properties', click this.
The tab on the far right should be 'Configure', click there.
The slider goes from 1 to 5, 5 is the darkest. Remember to change it back, before doing regular printing, if you want to save some toner.

Also, from the printer driver (the setup options you get before actually printing), there is something in there about saveing toner (never used it), make sure that is off.

Wrote this all from memory, done it often enough should be acurate, but if you can't find some part of it, check through the other tabs and options, you'll find the slider.

 

[HarveyH42]

This is a board I did last Saturday. Its about 2.5" X 3.25". The traces are thin, almost like drawn with a pencil. I tried a demo of a different layout program, didn't think to change the defaults, everything was in metric (damn brits), so printed it anyway. I was a little concerned about whether it was going to work, so I used some cheap, paper thin copper I picked up surplus, cheap. Did two boards, came out amazing. I had the other board drill and fully assembled and functional by noon (and I tend to sleep late on weekends).

 

[DirtyLude]

If you can fill a ground plane or 'pour copper' it will save you alot of etchant.

Like this:
**broken link removed**

 

[mramos1]

If you are worried about how nice the board looks and you have someone else work without the ground plane. I use a medium sharpie marker and color it in on the copper before the etchant. Write date/initials, etc.