Rectification without electronics!

[izzzzzz6]

In case any of you hadn't put it together yet, i was thinking to reverse engineer the concept of the worlds most powerful electromagnet, but probably only start with one layer of the spiral staircase, but make it spherical in shape and spin a very powerful neo disc magnet within! Well thats giving away almost all of my concept now. Anyone want to start building one? I was also thinking that we are not limited by magnetic shapes as a neo magnet could be moulded in any shape we like and then magnetised once built. Not really sure where to go with this but i'm sure a very efficient core to the generator could be designed.

 

[izzzzzz6]

I know this go's against what i said earlier about avoiding high voltages, but is an electrostatic discharge not a form of direct current as it is only flowing in one direction?

 

[izzzzzz6]

This is pretty funny, i watched the second part of this video the other night and it didn't even cross my mind that it was along the same lines, perhaps another clue?

 

[dr pepper]

The capacitor transformers as they are reffered to I would have thought will just act like capacitors, I dont see how the primarys can generate a magnetic field with only one end connected, unless the other radiates rf into free space, I think whats occuring is that the capacitive reactnance is acting like a resistor and dropping the voltage, not very efficient.

I'm not following what you mean by a standing wave within a generator, do you mean a gen with resonant capacitor loaded windings?

A capacitor or inductor causes a phase shift of either voltage or current, not power, a time shift in power would require a shift of both voltage and current, I think you'd have to do this electro mechanically to make it work esp at different speeds.

I have zero confidence in anything bedini, back emf is a result of the laws of magnetics, the energy was put there in the first place by a power source, back emf is exactly what the power supply in your computer uses that you are reading this with, some of the energy is lost in the winding resistance and within the ferrite core, as well as electronic losses.

Some scientists would argue with you and say the universe is made up of fractals instead of spirals.

 

[MrAl]

Hi iz,

I had built a electrostatic transformer quite a while back for higher frequency use and it worked fine. I never tried to build one for power applications however, but i suspect it would follow the same general principles and of course be larger (mine fit roughly into a cube with side 1 inch).

If i understand you right, you basically are thinking about making a loop of wire (simplest form would be one large loop for example) and making the magnet rotate along the loop so that it is maybe 1/8 inch away from the wire at all times yet moving along it's length in a circular path, hoping the magnet would somehow PUSH the electrons through the wire and because it rotates it would start over again after every complete rotation and thus provide a constant push.
But i dont think it works that way because as the magnet approaches the wire for the first time (when the device is being built) it will create a current that will rise and then when the magnet stops moving toward the wire (once it is mounted) the current will drop down to zero again, and any movement along the wire itself will not change the field that the wire experiences so there would be no more current.
You could try it i guess if you feel like building something up. It takes experiments anyway to find out if something new really works or not and that usually means building something up from scratch, so get used to it now.

 

[izzzzzz6]

Well i've just thought about something new, if the magnet was a spiral shape so that one half of it has the polarity of north and the other half south then we could have Coil or spiral A at one end and the other coil at the other end so that each coil was only subjected to one of the poles from the magnet, perhaps there is a way to then combine the resulting current and swap the polarity on one of the coils. I still think there is something to be said for charging the spiral flat coils and using this capacitance to unleash the power created by the eddie currents induced by the magnet.
If only one pole of the magnet is sweeping past the coil will it re-energise the coil each time? Or will it just reach a limit after the first sweep, if it reaches a limit of charge then can we use the current and then it has reset itself for the next sweep? Sorry i can't answer these questions, i would really like to build some models to check the results but i am strapped for time, space, tools and money right now. This is why i am firstly researching what is possible by asking other people with knowledge before i waste too much time building anything. However i really feel the design of a magnet generator spinning a strong neo disc magnet inside a thick ball of coils or a spherical spiral staircase of copper strips (insulated between the strips) would be a great design. Perhaps by combining two or more spheres of coils along the same rotor with multiple spherical disc magnets we could start to combine the outputs from the coils and combine them. Even if this requires electronics to rectify the Current i believe it would be a design worth trying.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Well i've just thought about something new, if the magnet was a spiral shape so that one half of it has the polarity of north and the other half south then we could have Coil or spiral A at one end and the other coil at the other end so that each coil was only subjected to one of the poles from the magnet, perhaps there is a way to then combine the resulting current and swap the polarity on one of the coils. I still think there is something to be said for charging the spiral flat coils and using this capacitance to unleash the power created by the eddie currents induced by the magnet.
If only one pole of the magnet is sweeping past the coil will it re-energise the coil each time? Or will it just reach a limit after the first sweep, if it reaches a limit of charge then can we use the current and then it has reset itself for the next sweep? Sorry i can't answer these questions, i would really like to build some models to check the results but i am strapped for time, space, tools and money right now. This is why i am firstly researching what is possible by asking other people with knowledge before i waste too much time building anything. However i really feel the design of a magnet generator spinning a strong neo disc magnet inside a thick ball of coils or a spherical spiral staircase of copper strips (insulated between the strips) would be a great design. Perhaps by combining two or more spheres of coils along the same rotor with multiple spherical disc magnets we could start to combine the outputs from the coils and combine them. Even if this requires electronics to rectify the Current i believe it would be a design worth trying.

Then try it and see

But I suspect if you search amongst the loony 'over unity' sites you'll probably find such ideas have been tried by them.

Electrical motors and generators are VERY well established and highly researched technology, for over a hundred years, and modern designs are how they are because that's been found the best way.

 

[hexreader]

izzzzzz6
The more over-complicated your over-thinking becomes, the more able you will be to confuse yourself into the delusion that the impossible might suddenly become possible.

I will not be investing in any of your muddled ideas.

 

[shortbus=]

May be member Billy Mayo would want to work with the OP on this?

 

[4pyros]

I still want a time machine.

 

[dr pepper]

Me a teleporter.

 

[MrAl]

Well i've just thought about something new, if the magnet was a spiral shape so that one half of it has the polarity of north and the other half south then we could have Coil or spiral A at one end and the other coil at the other end so that each coil was only subjected to one of the poles from the magnet, perhaps there is a way to then combine the resulting current and swap the polarity on one of the coils. I still think there is something to be said for charging the spiral flat coils and using this capacitance to unleash the power created by the eddie currents induced by the magnet.
If only one pole of the magnet is sweeping past the coil will it re-energise the coil each time? Or will it just reach a limit after the first sweep, if it reaches a limit of charge then can we use the current and then it has reset itself for the next sweep? Sorry i can't answer these questions, i would really like to build some models to check the results but i am strapped for time, space, tools and money right now. This is why i am firstly researching what is possible by asking other people with knowledge before i waste too much time building anything. However i really feel the design of a magnet generator spinning a strong neo disc magnet inside a thick ball of coils or a spherical spiral staircase of copper strips (insulated between the strips) would be a great design. Perhaps by combining two or more spheres of coils along the same rotor with multiple spherical disc magnets we could start to combine the outputs from the coils and combine them. Even if this requires electronics to rectify the Current i believe it would be a design worth trying.

Hi,

If you are going to come up with elaborate ideas then you should really start making some drawings, at least rough drawings, so we can understand what you are thinking and trying to do. The drawings should clearly illustrate what it is you want to show. Words just are not enough when it comes to new things like this.
"If i put this thing over here and that thing over there, it might work..." isnt descriptive enough, that's why we always see drawings accompanying new inventions, and this is especially important when discussing technical issues.

But i think you might still need to look at what happens when a magnet moves close to a wire, and then moves away, or just stops moving. I think that would tell you more about what you want to know.

So far everything that uses magnetics and coils to generate DC requires some sort of commutation, which is either mechanical or electronic or a combination of both, and that means a switch of some type.

You could also look into the Hall Effect to see if that helps with your idea. That is a more static effect than the Generator Effect. You might then also compare the Hall Effect with the Generator Effect to see how they are different.

 

[dr pepper]

Perfectly good comments.
The problem is with inventing unless you can do everything yourself you risk giving away your ideas, however no disrespect but I dont think anything so far is going to be stolen off you.

 

[alec_t]

I still want a time machine.

I've already built mine .... in 2037 .

 

[dr pepper]

Better go back to the future then.

 

[alec_t]

I just did. The OP is still trying to get his generator working in 2041!

 

[dr pepper]

Hear that izzy6, your going to live for at least a while yet.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hear that izzy6, your going to live for at least a while yet.

Well he's unlikely to get electrocuted by his imaginary generator!

 

[MrAl]

Perfectly good comments.
The problem is with inventing unless you can do everything yourself you risk giving away your ideas, however no disrespect but I dont think anything so far is going to be stolen off you.

Hi,

I assumed that because he was discussing this in an open forum he just wanted to do some brain storming and didnt care that much about revealing any ideas. In fact, he seems to want more ideas from others about how this might be done, and if it is even possible.

Nothing that i know of using AC can make DC without commutation. That includes harmonics because any harmonics always go through zero just like the fundamental frequency. And magnetics and coils produce AC. Any wave we see with a DC content always has a DC component in addition to it's AC components (if any). So the DC content is already there by some means that is not due to any AC behavior alone.
In other words, no combination of AC signals can produce a DC signal using only linear circuit components. A coil would be considered a linear circuit component.

There is a chance that using a magnetic core in addition to a coil would help if the core was biased with a magnet. A magnetic core is only linear up to a certain point, and with pure AC and unbiased core it is still linear, but becomes non linear when the excitation nears the saturation flux density. That would cause the AC to be clipped, but it would be clipped symmetrically about zero so all the harmonic components would still be AC.
Using a magnet to bias the core however (not a DC current which we dont actually have yet) the clipping would become non symmetrical, and thus we might then see a net DC. The important phrase here though is "net DC", it's not total DC but over the average it might actually contain a DC component that would charge a battery for example. The down side though is that it would be pretty inefficient because the core would have to constantly saturate, and so there would be plenty of losses. Charging a battery directly with this kind of current would mean the battery would charge up somewhat for half the cycle and then discharge a little during the other half cycle (roughly speaking). That would mean the battery would age faster too even though it would end up with a net total charge that was more than what we started with, and not using any direct rectification.

So that might be one way to do it, but because of the inefficiencies it basically bites <smile>

 

[alec_t]

There is a chance that using a magnetic core in addition to a coil would help if the core was biased with a magnet.

I don't see how a magnetic bias would help, since the emf produced by the coil depends on the rate of change of the magnetic flux through it. The derivative of a constant flux bias is zero.