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Rectification without electronics!

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In case any of you hadn't put it together yet, i was thinking to reverse engineer the concept of the worlds most powerful electromagnet, ....

i have to agree with the first part, nobody can follow what you have in mind. no drawings, no numbers, no physics, no sense...
if you can't put a number on it, you are wasting everyone's time and any idea you come up with is just clowning in front of masses
(over unity folks are entertaining but only to a point, they quickly get boring).

for example you are talking about efficiency and how you would like to improve it on a rectifier design. a novel idea! however, have you any idea what is efficiency of other noble concepts like flame or mercury rectification? or why you don't see them around while there are literally hundreds of diodes everywhere around you? do you know how to measure or compute losses in a diode?

then you are thinking about reverse engineering something that is not even secret:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_electromagnet

who are you? what are you?
do you even have a plan?

if i think of it, there are in general three ways one can make a discovery:
1. own experience (everyone knows since childhood that falling down causes pain etc.)
2. targeted research (you study and learn what is known, then focus on on research/experiments/number crunching that push the envelope in a not explored area)
3. accident (you witnessed something remarkable, that was not documented before)

your idea is to do something in an energy sector (very lucrative!) but the options are limited:
1. own experience: you are not doing it, in fact you are asking others to brainstorm for you. and if you already knew it, you would not ask for help. it is not like you are building prototypes or walking through some fairy land full of rectifier alternatives.
2. targeted research: you are not doing it, you did not get needed education and you are not doing own research, worse - you are considering reverse engineering things that are not even secret. you want to improve efficiency of something that you can't even quantify. how can you then even tell if something is more efficient? you want to improve current designs and you don't even know what the current designs are (just kidding, i am sure you already know everything there is to be known about commutators, frog leg winding etc).
3. accident: this is what you hope for, stumble upon something magical that nobody else sees. something that is in the heads of other people and yet you are the one to seize the moment... maybe aliens landing in your back yard and revealing to you some new technology.
 
I don't see how a magnetic bias would help, since the emf produced by the coil depends on the rate of change of the magnetic flux through it. The derivative of a constant flux bias is zero.

Hi,

Yes, but with a core it's a little more complicated, as with a saturated core the rate of change of flux will be lower than when the core is in it's normal operating range. My only fear is that even with a higher peak for one half cycle the current may auto center itself anyway, which would still leave us with zero net DC.
This would be true with a capacitor for example, but this isnt a capacitor.
I also left room for experimentation in case anybody wants to try it. I did not say that it would definitely work <smile>.
But even if it did work, the efficiency would be too bad so it's more a curiosity thing rather than something that would probably actually be used to generate power unless it did work and you were stranded on a desert island ha ha.
 
Maybe the OP could use;
Flame rectification

I think a few classes in applied electrical physics and large helping of hands on experience is what he needs.
 
Isnt flame rectification thermionic, ie electronic, defeating the title of the thread rectfication without electronics?
All comments so far refer to the fact that generators using windings generate ac, seems like a difficult to overcome situation, maybe the answer os not to use windings in the first place.
 
Hi,

Well i mentioned thermopiles and a radiation source a long time ago, but then again that's not something that most people can do. Maybe the problem is just more difficult then we might want to admit.
 
Hi Guys it's been a while and i meant to start experimenting on a few things but you know how it is! Anyway the other night i had a breakthrough idea but only to find there is a patent on it. It's not quite the same idea i had but it's damn close. And in any case it's not exactly rectification as there is never an alternating current in the first place although there should be but it's simple trickery. I'm not sure if it even works yet as i didn't try myself but it is sort of one of the answers i was looking for. Me design would have a continuous coil around the outside and infact it would not be a coil but a type of flat spiral that would not be easy to build but a 3d printer with electroplating technology or simple electroplating over plastic could form my design. Imagine the spiral disc technology used in the worlds largest electromagnets and then wrap them into a torus, so rather than wire being wrapped into the shape of a torus we would have copper spirals, more like discs that spiral the whole way around like a flat slinky. I also think there could be some capacitance formed between the spiral disc coils that may be of use. Here is a link to the patent i just saw so you can get a better idea of what I'm talking about.
https://www.google.com/patents/US20130162057

Remember in my design the coil would be continuous, so when you put a load in series with it it will force the magnets within to slow themselves. In his/her design he/she shows the magnets as spherical. This would not actually work very well as they would be trying to reposition themselves to align with the magnetic field, and energy can only be created if their field cuts through that of the coils potential field. So a rail of bearings within is recommended so that the magnets can be kept at the optimal orientation. Simple stuff!

If the continuous solenoid torus has potential for generating energy it may also have potential as a type of motor and possibly even have an effect on gravity if used on a large enough scale and at the correct speeds. My design would put the magnets in a vacuum to optimise the motion within the torus.

The other concept i would like to marry this technology with is the gyroscope. I couldn't help but become obsessed with the idea of trying to accelerate the magnets to great speeds with a very slow motion simply by using a gyroscope type design. The magnets would in this case form the flywheel and just like a Powerball (the toy used as a wrist/arm strengthener) We could spin the generator at high speeds with a simple slow stirring motion from the wrist. This could also be scaled up to any size including industrial level by using a motor to create the motion needed to simulate the action needed to spin a power ball up to high speeds. Here lies one big mechanical and or electrical problem, since the gyroscopic magnetic flywheel would be built inside a torus (ideally but not necessarily built with the flat spiral coil concept) then the torus would also have to be in motion making it impossible to tap to the wires without some type of brush or other wiping contact, initially i considered using the inductor technique to transfer energy from the inner torus to the outer torus but doesn't inductor transfer of energy rely on alternating current?
I've not given up here i just haven't had the time to look into this further and think about all possible uses of such a device. there could be super capacitors that charge within and then we collect the energy after spinning the device up for a few mins or so.
Many of these ideas came from thinking about how to collect the energy produced when a magnet is dropped through an aluminium or copper pipe, etc.
A pipe turned into a coil which turned into a flat spiral coil which turned into a torus so it's like an infinite solenoid formed from a type of coil but it has a load on it where you want to tap the energy from. Future experiments would also test the potential difference between the inside (narrowest) and the outside edges (opposite edge on the outside) of the torus. and also try tapping of of each turn or perhaps from segments of turns around the torus to divide or multiply voltages or use these tapping points for motor technology. I would also consider adding non magnetic spherical objects between the magnets to create the correct spacing.
So in a way i don't even know if i've answered the question here, i have more skipped around the outside to find the answer i was looking for.
Another of my original line of thoughts that lead me here was to fully encompass the magnets in a sphere so none of the magnetic field could escape.
All of the ideas have come from bits and bobs pieced together from existing technology. I was a bit gutted when i saw the patent above. however it is not essentially the same concept as i came up with, as he/she does not use a continuous coil, neither do they mention the flat spirals which would shield the device and capture maximum energy all be it lot voltage and high current compared to using many more windings of wire. although if combined successfully with the high speeds generated by the gyroscopic acceleration we may be able to achieve a bit of both depending on the resistance caused by the eddie currents which would try to slow the flywheel if too much current was drawn.
Can anybody answer this question:
If a strong magnet is dropped down a copper pipe it takes it's time to fall as it is converting energy into heat (there is a short circuit within the copper pipe) Then what would happen if that copper pipe was bent into a circle with the magnet inside and we were to turn or slowly roll the pipe along the ground?
Would the magnet continue to fall slowly around it's inner circumference? Or would the magnet suddenly no longer be effected by these laws and it would not tumble down the pipe as if it were inside a plastic tube?
This is the experiment i would like to try but with a coil of wire with a load across it, then moving up to a combination of magnets and non magnetic sphere within the torus. Then if there was success the idea would be to build a cage within with bearings (possibly ceramic) that would keep the magnets positioned in the best possible orientation for the production of power etc. Then the last step would be to swap out the wire for the flat spiral disc type wide slinky torus design (less coils but much more surface area) And then try to squeeze all of that into a gyroscope where the magnet array would form the flywheel.

It would be nice to see such a thing on a handheld scale but also in larger formats.
Photo on 24-11-2014 at 09.53.jpg
 
If it works. Sorry about the crappy sketch but it was a quick one and i didn't sleep last night.
 
The OP hasn't mentioned anything about over unity or perpetual motion.

izzzzz seems to be describing a type of generator where by continually putting kinetic energy into the generator we generate electrical power.

Can anybody answer this question:
If a strong magnet is dropped down a copper pipe it takes it's time to fall as it is converting energy into heat (there is a short circuit within the copper pipe) Then what would happen if that copper pipe was bent into a circle with the magnet inside and we were to turn or slowly roll the pipe along the ground?
Would the magnet continue to fall slowly around it's inner circumference? Or would the magnet suddenly no longer be effected by these laws and it would not tumble down the pipe as if it were inside a plastic tube?

A moving magnet surrounded by a conductive material will generate eddy currents as you suggest, and the magnetic field generated by these currents opposes the movement of the magnet. This is why you observe that the magnets is slowed when it falls through a copper pipe.
The magnet can't come to a complete stop, if it did no eddy currents would be generated and it would fall. However it can be made to move very very slowly by removing all the losses in the system - this has been repeatedly shown using superconductors.
In your question the magnet would continue to fall as long as you keep turning the circular tube. obviously if the magnet reached the bottom of the circuit it will stop falling so there would be an optimum speed to turn your tube.

With your generator style idea it becomes more complex. The eddy currents are no longer just a simple function of the copper resistance instead the generated currents are dependent on the load you attach. So for example if you open circuit the coil (no load) then no eddy currents could flow and the magnet would not be slowed down ( apart from friction and air resistance). Short circuit the coil and the magnet will be slowed down as much as if it were in a copper pipe.
The mechanical input power will have to compensate for whatever load you have applied such that energy in = energy out + losses

BTW the output will be AC

basically you've invented a complex generator which crosses over with partial accelerator ideas. Might make for an interesting flywheel generator though but with this complexity it would only be worth it for a very large flywheel.
 
The OP hasn't mentioned anything about over unity or perpetual motion.

izzzzz seems to be describing a type of generator where by continually putting kinetic energy into the generator we generate electrical power.
Have you read this hole thread?
 
Izzzz, unless you can back up your suggestions with evidence then I'm afraid you probably will get an icy reception, I have posted on this forum for a while and I can say that the majority of us are knowledgeable in the field and are not ready to accept radical ideas without real facts.
I have repaired a powerball for someone, nifty little thing, they make phone chargers for them now.
 
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