Rectification without electronics!

[alec_t]

I guess if you can prove that you have the earliest record of the idea then you may be protected

That's the way it works in the USA, where they have a 'first to invent' law. It's different in Europe, where it's a 'first to apply for a patent' law.

Oh and the invention i would like to protect is not really this non proven concept of brushless rectification without diodes or fets. Is would be to protect some of the generator designs that i have thought of. I will be working more on these in December so if we start to get anywhere with the concepts i'll fill you all in on what they are.

Well If you discuss the concepts in detail in an open forum you won't be able to get a valid patent for them in Europe

 

[dr pepper]

I find bedini motors a little too stochastic.

 

[tcmtech]

Now that I have fairly regular internet access here what exactly are you going for with the concept?

What is wrong with using a normal 3ph generator setup and the related 6 diodes for a normal 3ph bridge rectifier system?

 

[johansen]

the rotary converter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_converter is the only thing that comes close to the OP's post.

but like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_vapour_turbine, they have since been long replaced with diodes.

the amount of iron and copper needed to make a synchronous ac to dc converter is easily more than what is required for a 12 pulse transformer, which will deliver almost ripple free dc from 3 phase ac. (you could also build a 12 pulse alternator for the same investment in copper. )

ripple free dc is not needed for charging batteries.

 

[izzzzzz6]

Now that I have fairly regular internet access here what exactly are you going for with the concept?

What is wrong with using a normal 3ph generator setup and the related 6 diodes for a normal 3ph bridge rectifier system?

Hi tcmtech, really the only reasons that i posted this thread is that there is a slight loss when we use diodes, so if there was a way to avoid or cut down on the use of electronics or brushes then perhaps we can design a more efficient generator, if someone succeeds then perhaps it will be the way of generating electricity of the future. I see that most generators are designed around motor design, this is where it is difficult to break the thought pattern, how can we generate a dc voltage without having to rectify ac through circuits or by using a commutator. surely there is a way to tap into the circuit and reverse half of the wave without diodes, a commutator is so simple but there must be another way. or perhaps not? Also it's just a little challenge for everyone, unfortunately i do not know the answer :0)

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hi tcmtech, really the only reasons that i posted this thread is that there is a slight loss when we use diodes, so if there was a way to avoid or cut down on the use of electronics or brushes then perhaps we can design a more efficient generator, if someone succeeds then perhaps it will be the way of generating electricity of the future. I see that most generators are designed around motor design, this is where it is difficult to break the thought pattern, how can we generate a dc voltage without having to rectify ac through circuits or by using a commutator. surely there is a way to tap into the circuit and reverse half of the wave without diodes, a commutator is so simple but there must be another way. or perhaps not? Also it's just a little challenge for everyone, unfortunately i do not know the answer :0)

Because there isn't a way - if there was it would have been used decades (centuries?) ago.

 

[izzzzzz6]

Because there isn't a way - if there was it would have been used decades (centuries?) ago.

If everyone thought the same way as you do we wouldn't get anywhere!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

If everyone thought the same way as you do we wouldn't get anywhere!

So you don't want to know the truth? - are still hoping for some 'magical' solution that bypasses the laws of physics?.

 

[tcmtech]

Synchronous rectifier systems using MosFets or similar semi conductors can get pretty efficient.

That said in the vast majority of power circuits the energy levels being lost to rectification are a very small fraction of the overall power being dealt with.

Same with the brush sets in a generator or motor. When designed and maintained properly they don't waste enough energy to be worth worrying about.

 

[dr pepper]

The above is a way of generating power with a bldc motor.

 

[crutschow]

Perhaps you should join the "over unity" folks. They have the same "ignore the physics" mindset as you appear to.

 

[dr pepper]

Have to agree with that.

 

[izzzzzz6]

So you don't want to know the truth? - are still hoping for some 'magical' solution that bypasses the laws of physics?.

It was people with opinions like yours who said time travel would never be possible, they also said we would never be able to teleport or break the speed of light. They said we would never be able to control gravity and nobody would be able to solve the mysteries of where the universe ends or how it was created but look where we are now. See if everyone believed that none of this would have been possible then we never would have advanced to the point we have now reached.
Believe in a different way of approaching things and you wouldn't believe what becomes possible!
;0)

 

[4pyros]

It was people with opinions like yours who said time travel would never be possible

You believe time travel is possible?

 

[Ian Rogers]

It was people with opinions like yours who said time travel would never be possible, they also said we would never be able to teleport or break the speed of light. They said we would never be able to control gravity and nobody would be able to solve the mysteries of where the universe ends or how it was created but look where we are now. See if everyone believed that none of this would have been possible then we never would have advanced to the point we have now reached.
Believe in a different way of approaching things and you wouldn't believe what becomes possible!
;0)

Ok I'm hooked as well!!! I need to know who can do these things....

 

[MrAl]

Hello there,

The idea of generating DC without some means of rectification means that it is probably not going to happen using magnetics. The reason is because to generate a current we need a *changing* magnetic field, and that means that there is a slope associated with that change, and as the slope goes up the current flows one way, and as the slope goes down the current flows the other way, which is really AC and needs rectification. The only way to get DC in this manner without using rectification would be to have a magnetic influence that increases indefinitely without ever leveling off or changing the sign of it's slope. This has to be impossible at least with today's technology. So it's like climbing a mountain...eventually we reach the top as long as it takes because there is no mountain that is infinitely high. Sooner or later the sign of the slope changes and so the current reverses.

This does not mean that there are no other ways to do this though. A thermopile and heat from a nuclear radiation source can produce DC for a very long time. The radiation creates heat and that drives the thermopile and that creates the current. But magnetic generators operate on different principles so it is not likely that it will ever happen unless someone finds a way to trick the wire into thinking that the change in field is always increasing without any kind of switching mechanism. Never say never, but this is unlikely to happen unless maybe someday we can learn to harness the power of a black hole for example, maybe even creating our own controlled black holes for use for energy generation.

 

[alec_t]

The only way to get DC in this manner without using rectification would be to have a magnetic influence that increases indefinitely without ever leveling off or changing the sign of it's slope.

Well that should be dead easy for one of these guys who can time-travel to arrange .

 

[izzzzzz6]

Cummon guys n galls i'm only joking, but it's true that if people thought that futuristic ideas were not possible then we would still be living in the dark ages.
Here are two reasons i think it should be possible, although i myself can't quite picture it in my mind, this is why i'm putting it out there as i believe some people can actually picture the flow of electrons in their minds due to having more experience than i, i also believe that there are many people out there who can picture in their minds how electronics actually work, i myself can only put together circuits due to knowing that they work, but i can't design them from scratch as i do not understand why they work. Really it's only sand (silicon) which makes it even more confusing. So here is why i believe it to be possible but i don't know how, perhaps resonance is the key, perhaps capacitance is the key, for example i am toying with the idea of using copper foil rather than wire, this means that between the thin layers of foil (insulated from each other of course) there would be a buildup of capacitance from the magnets passing (depending on how we build the coils) I have a different design in my head which is not actually in a coil form but in a spiral form and here we go i'm giving all away now but i'm also thinking to build it in a (Spiral Staircase layout) now this is a design only seen in the worlds most powerful electromagnet. So if someone gets any further with this then please send some credit my way.

Reason 1.
If the magnet creates a forward current we can capture it, if when the magnet creates the reverse current we capture it in a different coil and reverse the voltage we can also capture this, put the two together and offset them and we have two + peaks, so we just need to capture the - peaks and reverse them. it sounds easy but i know it's not as easy as this. It's got to do with frequency and timing, i was thinking why not take a tap from the centre of the coil, although it may not be the centre we need it may be 2/3 the way in from each end, you know how a multi voltage transformer winding has a 0v and then a choice of different voltages, well isn't the 0V line used to get the pd between the other windings? Doesn't that mean that there are different connections from that same piece of wire and some of them have more windings than others. I'm thinking what if we use two sets of magnets and coils along the same rotor (rotor would be twice as long and have an identical coil and magnet setup at the other end lets say B), then tap the + from the A section and send it back to the + of the B part of the rotor) the two magnets would have it's poles oppositely aligned so that when one is creating a forward voltage the other is creating a - voltage) then we swap the polarity, but wait will this cancel everything out? I don't think so, or we would have the wires burn out meaning that we have a potential difference that we can use, or would it just spin as if there were no forces involved, i'm not sure because i can't picture it, however if all that was needed was to have an electronic delay on one of the rotors and then release the current back into the other coil, then we could swap the polarity at the correct time. Perhaps this would take more than two coils, 3 is the magic number right

The reason that this is not possible with a transformer is that we have 50Hz or thereabouts we can't control what is coming through our walls, but with a generator it is us who makes the frequency and the designer of the generator who decides how many Hz and how many waves of ac electricity it produces, so what if we have 2 lots of 50 hz but one of them is out of sync with the other, normally this would cancel out but is there a potential difference between the peaks? if there were enough different frequencies we could fill the peaks in, would peak to peak work as DC? If not then could we delay the second AC current with capacitance? could we tap half way along the coil? could we place this delay half way along the coils? These are the answers i can't picture, but i do know that too many people are thinking about designing generators around motor design.
I think that a modification of the bendini circuit may help, a bendini captures the peak pulses and then we often use them to spike batteries to charge or condition them, or people use them to drive tiny motors with a seemingly small amount of energy by putting the extra power back into the system. To be honest i don't really understand the bendini circuit, but this is what it seems to do. can we do this in a different way and capture low voltage and high current and direct it where we want it? Yes now i'm join off on a tangent as i'm starting to bring electronics back into it, however, if my coils work as a capacitor then here we have an example of a component we can use but there is no capacitor as such there, just the coils wound in a special format, is this also true to other components if we get clever with the way the coils are wound and tapped.
Note, i am not interested in high voltage or high rpm experiments, i am thinking low voltage and low rpm here.

Reason 2.
I think this may be part of the trick but i do not know how to create this effect. How can we create a standing wave within the generator?
In physics, a standing wave – also known as a stationary wave – is a wave that remains in a constant position.



Two opposing waves combine to form a standing wave.
This phenomenon can occur because the medium is moving in the opposite direction to the wave, or it can arise in a stationary medium as a result of interference between two waves traveling in opposite directions. In the second case, for waves of equalamplitude traveling in opposing directions, there is on average no net propagation of energy.

In a resonator, standing waves occur during the phenomenon known as resonance.

I'm sure this is a clue…...

 

[izzzzzz6]

Another thing to think about is that we think of waves as two dimensional, however this is only how we look at them drawn down on paper or on an oscilloscope . In reality a wave is 3 dimensional. This must mean that the waveform of alternating current is also 3 dimensional, it's not possible that it only has 2 dimensions. A radio wave travels in all directions, this makes it 3 dimensional. perhaps here is another clue:
https://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/new-metamaterial-lens-focuses-radio-waves-1114.html

 

[izzzzzz6]

Perhaps this is an interesting clue as i am thinking along the lines of building a generator where the magnet is totally encapsulated within a sphere, the idea was to be able to capture all of the magnetic field, so nothing is able to penetrate the coils (or spirals) which would make up the sphere, then sometimes i think that the magnets should be in a hollow sphere arrangement with the coils within, and perhaps with a second sphere of coils around the outside of that, obviously this would be a mechanical nightmare depending on which way we had to spin the magnets! But i just found this concept: three dimensional standing waves! Can't get an URL for this so please google the images for:
three dimensional standing waves