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PWM - browns gas generator

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by Flex, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. Myles

    Myles New Member

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    It's not converting, it's not linear. It's like being a bank. You loan cash, and get it back (the water capacitor never discharges from the cathode to the anode, it charges, does not reach critical voltage, and runs back down into your battery). You could do it with an AA, but only a rechargeable one. and it would wear before it's done the whole ocean, and lose it's ability to be recharged. But alas, ocean water is not dielectric. So it's conducive to current flow.

    The whole HHO buzz is not about HHO, it's about how we get it. And for how little. HHO isn't even HHO. It's Hydrogen and Oxygen, a lot of it monatomic.
    I didn't say zero, I said practically zero. There will always be a loss of energy, however small. But, take note, I'm not talking about splitting the water directly, but rather obliquely. the point is to not run current through the water, but instead charge the plates and uncharge them several thousand times a second. through doing this the water is split, but indirectly. Ie, you're using a high voltage CHARGE on the water capacitor, and letting it dissapate back into the battery on the off cycle.

    I find it is the cult that shun's logic and foreign ideas. I believe the "Oh duh, we know better" attitude has been adopted by every cult in history. So maybe every HHO thread has one or two non-occultists, which you find surprising and I find refreshing.
     
  2. Myles

    Myles New Member

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    Car battery's right, but you've got to keep it there unless you've got it connected to your alternator and your car is running.
     
  3. Myles

    Myles New Member

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    Wait, no, you'll need the battery the whole time..
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    You could use a supercapacitor instead of your AA battery and get more recharges. Of course you need to start with a fully charged one and may need to recharge it once a week or so, because of the inefficiencies you expect in the system.

    Then construct your system with a 555 multivibrator driving an Infineon mosfet

    With that system you should be able to demonstrate the process on a small body of water, like a swimming pool or Lake Erie. You may not even need the working model, just a good description, a little theory, and a schematic.

    Then, submit it to the Infineon contest by mid-August and win $10,000. That should go a long way to developing the prototype, particularly if you are able to recycle the dollars just as you plan to do with the electrical charge. You know, you buy what you need, then re-sell the HHO you produce to get the dollars back. Have you looked up the application yet?

    John
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  6. Flex

    Flex New Member

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    You need to work on your people skills and read the thread from the beginning...
     
  7. Flex

    Flex New Member

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  8. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi Flex,

    But that just generates regular H2. We need the supercharged HHO for it to work in the engines as proposed. ;)

    John
     
  9. Torben

    Torben Well-Known Member

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    There seem to be a lot of people out there who confuse "conjecture" with "theory", and "Gee, that seems like it should work" with "logic".

    The scientific method requires that you make an observation about something, break it down into testable hypotheses, and then test them in such a way that a) the success or failure of the test can be attributed to only the one factor under test, and b) the test and results can be reproduced by any other similarly-equipped independent experimenter.

    I'd be more than happy to entertain many of these ideas if only someone would provide actual test results. For some reason, though, nobody ever does. They are happy to provide plans, but no test designs nor results.

    Why do you suppose that is?


    Torben
     
  10. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    @Torben,

    As has been stated earlier, it borders on religion or cult behavior. BTW, one of the criticisms of religion is that it neither presents nor leads to any hypotheses that can be tested. That may be true, depending on how one interprets certain texts. However, the hypothesis that prayer helps healing and recovery has been tested several times in the past decade and has always given negative results. In fact, some studies showed a slight negative effect of prayer.

    Nevertheless, if the OP is so bent on proceeding with this effort, then I have no problem giving suggestions. I am just hoping against hope that he will post his results. John
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  11. Torben

    Torben Well-Known Member

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    John, I agree completely.


    Torben
     
  12. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    The PDF I was trying to post was supposed to be based on this guy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Haj4BX0trU (John kanzius)

    I don't believe it's even close it looks more like Browns Gas Generator.

    I think ElectroMaster thought it wasn't worth the space on the server. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  13. Hero999

    Hero999 Banned

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    42kHz is far too low to make any difference, the lowest resonance mode of water is around 22GHz and liquid water doesn't have a resonant peak because all the molecules are tightly hydrogen bonded to their neighbours.
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...&q=microwave+water+resonance+myth&btnG=Search

    The idea that something 'magic' happens at 42kHz is total rubbish and the idea that the current somehow alters water's infrared absorbtion spectra is even more ludicrous.
     
  14. Electric_EyE

    Electric_EyE New Member

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    Very interesting thread, just got done reading it. Too bad most of it was off topic and non helpful. I joined this forum to find a similar circuit that flex is looking for. I already built the electrode and tested the current draw at 50 amps at 12 v. Obviously this will burn out a typical car alternator. So the next logical route is current limiting PWM, which I am currently looking for. Switching 60+ amps is what I/we seems to be after here. I have a powerFET in mind which I will post when I get home. I have no idea how to bias it or drive it. I do know full on it can source/drain 200+Amps, and 800+Amps pulsed.
     
  15. Space Varmint

    Space Varmint New Member

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    Now you'll need to show your test results or someone else's because you are 180 degrees wrong.
     
  16. Mikebits

    Mikebits Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean he is half right? :)
     
  17. Torben

    Torben Well-Known Member

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    Well, that logic certainly reduced his argument to rubble.

    On the chance that you'd like to read some actual study results, check out http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract :

    One should be careful to note that the study does not address the possible existence of a god or gods; it simply examined recovery rates in large trial groups of patients.


    Torben
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  18. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Thank you, Torben, for the reply. Unfortunately, I didn't get e-mail notification for the responses in time to reply myself.

    Your quote from Professor Koenig,

    is exactly what I had in mind when I said depending on how one interprets the texts. Specifically, I was thinking of the Book of Job.

    Most important, as you point out, the experiments were not designed to test the existence of God, but the power of prayer. Its relevance, if you will, was in reference to your comments about proper scientific inquiry.

    John
     
  19. mneary

    mneary New Member

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    Dang! That means I'll never see supercharged HHO at work until I believe it first!

    And then, there'll be no need to demonstrate it, since believers don't need proof, and it never works for non believers.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Electric_EyE

    Electric_EyE New Member

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    OK, need some help from Electrical Engineer pretty please. The power mosfet is $35us STE250NS10 (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/8220.pdf). As I stated in my earlier post, the electrode I am using now draws 50 amps @ room temp. Later I plan to expand the surface area by using circular plates instead of rectangular ones and I anticipate a current draw of 125A, which is why I am choosing a transistor which can handle twice the current. for the driver I would like to use a DRV101. Here's a schematic from one of the App note's: Instead of the IRF4905, I'd like to use the STE250NS10. What adjustments do I have to make to the schematic to make it work? TIA
     

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  21. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The prayer test shows that believers have poor results and non-believers have better results.

    With HHO it will be the non-believers who don't waste time, money and gasoline to overload their overheated alternator to make useless HHO.
    It will be the believers who waste all that stuff.
     

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