Post Rating Buttons - A discussion

[jpanhalt]

This thread is started using posts split off from this thread:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/debounce.147308/

This seems to be a lively topic with some strong opinions, let's keep it a civil discussion.

JimB
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I am not quite sure of the intended purpose of the diode. Please explain?

John

 

[large_ghostman]

I am not quite sure of the intended purpose of the diode. Please explain?

John

What you didnt read your own link??

"The diode is an optional part needed only when the math goes haywire. It's possible, with the wrong sort of gate where the hysteresis voltages assume other values, for the formulas to pop out a value for R1 + R2 which is less than that of R2. In this case the diode forms a short cut that removes R2 from the charging circuit. All of the charge flows through R1. The previous equation still applies, except we have to account for drop across the diode. Change Vfinal to 4.3 volts (5 minus the 0.7 diode drop), turn the crank and R1 pops out."

 

[granddad]

I am not quite sure of the intended purpose of the diode. Please explain?

Not sure of the logic , how can you 'Dislike' a question...

Please tell me this is not a subsidiary of facebook

 

[Mikebits]

It seems like a silly feature.

 

[large_ghostman]

You would be amazed how many take it seriously . I like them because the trolls and idiots get wound up by them and that can only be a good thing. Those with a bit more sense see them for what they are a gimmick made to make facebookers feel at home.

Sorry Mike I had to swipe a disagree at you there! I did refrain from a dislike though so please dont troll my FB page or tweet me death threats!!! And dont send me email letter bombs lol

 

[JimB]

Well, I think that I have seen it all now:

People using the silly feature to agree that the feature is a silly feature.

If I remember correctly, when Electromaster moved the forum to the xenforo software he installed these buttons so that the users could give credit where it is due without having to write a one-line post, thus adding to thread clutter.

I think that it is a good feature.

JimB

 

[granddad]

JimB It was to 'dislike ' a question I found silly ,,, not the others... Agree etc... If you dislike a question , wouldn't you just ignore it ?

 

[jpanhalt]

JimB
On a related subject, we have an award of "Most Helpful Member". The only button that comes close to that is "Thanks". How can one equate a "Like" with help (excepting of course lonely neurotic people)? Five minutes in the Members Lounge will show that many, probably the majority of Likes are for OT comments and silliness. They have nothing to do with helping on an electronic question.

While the theory that the buttons serve to reduce clutter may make sense to some, I think the evidence argues the other way. Just count the one-liners to catch attention and a like. Maybe the forum name should be changed to Electro-Twit-Online?

Moreover, there is the potential for adverse effects. Look at the discussion a week or so ago started by someone who got a "Dislike." There are also members whose posts I always read, but they have very few likes, apparently because they infrequently visit the Lounge. Some of them are much more active on other forums that don't have the vivid reputation system that ETO has. The dislikes I got in the past 24 hours for asking an simple question are another example. What exactly is wrong with asking someone who recommends a solution that applies to an exceptional circumstances when the question was generic? Maybe he saw a reason the exception applied. In any case, opening the door to dislikes for what someone may consider too obvious is a bad precedent. That is certainly what goes on in academic environments and is an accepted practice for intellectual inquiry.

ETO is struggling to improve its content, not just post numbers, and has been for sometime now. I think the moderators should consider both sides of the current reputation system with an eye to whether the presumed benefits are being met and are of greater help in attaining ETO's goals than simply being a distraction whose only purpose for being is that they replaced a horribly failed system of green boxes.

John

 

[large_ghostman]

JimB
On a related subject, we have an award of "Most Helpful Member". The only button that comes close to that is "Thanks". How can one equate a "Like" with help (excepting of course lonely neurotic people)? Five minutes in the Members Lounge will show that many, probably the majority of Likes are for OT comments and silliness. They have nothing to do with helping on an electronic question.

While the theory that the buttons serve to reduce clutter may make sense to some, I think the evidence argues the other way. Just count the one-liners to catch attention and a like. Maybe the forum name should be changed to Electro-Twit-Online?

Moreover, there is the potential for adverse effects. Look at the discussion a week or so ago started by someone who got a "Dislike." There are also members whose posts I always read, but they have very few likes, apparently because they infrequently visit the Lounge. Some of them are much more active on other forums that don't have the vivid reputation system that ETO has. The dislikes I got in the past 24 hours for asking an simple question are another example. What exactly is wrong with asking someone who recommends a solution that applies to an exceptional circumstances when the question was generic? Maybe he saw a reason the exception applied. In any case, opening the door to dislikes for what someone may consider too obvious is a bad precedent. That is certainly what goes on in academic environments and is an accepted practice for intellectual inquiry.

ETO is struggling to improve its content, not just post numbers, and has been for sometime now. I think the moderators should consider both sides of the current reputation system with an eye to whether the presumed benefits are being met and are of greater help in attaining ETO's goals than simply being a distraction whose only purpose for being is that they replaced a horribly failed system of green boxes.

John

What a complete over reaction!! The system is what it is, a bit of fun. It shouldnt be taken seriously and this is a hobby forum not an engineering forum. Lighten up not every post has to be serious, this is exactly why we have the lounge!! The forum was serious for a while and numbers dropped, people voted with there feet. Slowly people are returning and while you may not like the way things are it is working in bringing people back. The worst thing a hobby forum can do is take itself too seriously, you have to have a friendly feel and face to attract hobbyist, I often think this is part of the problem though, you dislike the hobby thing and want it ENGINEER stuffy. It failed miserably as a simple question and answer NEXT type forum, it seems to be going back to its roots and gaining some ground again. I dont like or dislike the buttons, it amuses me how people take it seriously but other than that I dont have an opinion one way or other, people certainly dont need a system to work out who to listen too. That kind of thing is far more instinctive than you give credit for, I find it interesting you have carefully placed a criticism of a rating you were given. For someone who dosnt take it seriously you certainly seem to care a bit too much about it.

 

[granddad]

Sorry that is utter giberish I cant understand WTF your on about.

I would call this "an over reaction" ?

 

[large_ghostman]

I would call this "an over reaction" ?

Maybe .

I dont see why the fuss, dislikes dont impact your rating and likes mean very little. I cant remember the forum but an electronics one with a huge number of different colour blocks, you dont go on there and say to yourself I will disregard that answer because the person answering only has X number of little squares. I think it means more to those who want to scrap it than it does to most people. The whole dislike things absolutely cracks me up .

 

[granddad]

I

dislikes dont impact your rating and likes mean very little.

I don't visit here to get ratings , likes or thanks or whatever it matters not, I come to learn from more experienced people , I may disagree with some post , but see no reason to dislike . for me 'like' is a non word anyway.

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

It seems like a silly feature.

Apologies to Monty Python.

 

[large_ghostman]

Apologies to Monty Python.

 

[JimB]

JimB
On a related subject, we have an award of "Most Helpful Member". The only button that comes close to that is "Thanks". How can one equate a "Like" with help (excepting of course lonely neurotic people)? Five minutes in the Members Lounge will show that many, probably the majority of Likes are for OT comments and silliness. They have nothing to do with helping on an electronic question.

All seriousness with no deviations from a path of strict rectitude makes the average engineer a lonely neurotic person.

The dislikes I got in the past 24 hours for asking an simple question are another example.

If you mean the outburst by LG, I think that is him just being a gobby little kid who needs to grow up a lot more.

Maybe the forum name should be changed to Electro-Twit-Online?

Moreover, there is the potential for adverse effects. Look at the discussion a week or so ago started by someone who got a "Dislike." There are also members whose posts I always read, ...
... Some of them are much more active on other forums that don't have the vivid reputation system that ETO has.

ETO is struggling to improve its content, not just post numbers, and has been for sometime now.

From your comments here and elsewhere in the forums, you seem to have a bit of a downer on ETO,.
Are other forums so much better?
When I have looked over the fence to see what is happening at AAC, I see very much the same sort of content, from many of the same people.

I think the moderators should consider both sides of the current reputation system with an eye to whether the presumed benefits are being met and are of greater help in attaining ETO's goals than simply being a distraction whose only purpose for being is that they replaced a horribly failed system of green boxes.

Why the moderators?
You seem to be under the impression that the moderators control the configuration of the forum, we do not. It is the owners/administrators who are responsible for that.

In my opinion the rating buttons are fine when used correctly by a responsible adult.

JimB

 

[ericgibbs]

ETO is struggling to improve its content, not just post numbers, and has been for sometime now. I think the moderators should consider both sides of the current reputation system with an eye to whether the presumed benefits are being met and are of greater help in attaining ETO's goals than simply being a distraction whose only purpose for being is that they replaced a horribly failed system of green boxes.

hi,
I would agree 100% with John's comments, we seem to be drifting more to a 'twittering' site.

If you mean the outburst by LG, I think that is him just being a gobby little kid who needs to grow up a lot more.

Also with Jim.

Come on Logan, stay focussed on the technical aspects of ETO.

Eric

 

[Tony Stewart]

This thread is started using posts split off from this thread:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/debounce.147308/

This seems to be a lively topic with some strong opinions, let's keep it a civil discussion.

JimB
*************************************************************************************

I am not quite sure of the intended purpose of the diode. Please explain?

John

Although your linked article has much detail, it has a few errors.

One is the correct reason for not putting a large cap across the input of CMOS. ( clearly stated that you should never do this)

If the power is switched quickly to 0V for any reason, the input cap drives the Vcc bus thru the internal 5mA rated ESD diode which would likely blow it and remove ESD protection from the switch for that input, which may be ok after assembly is completed since C alone provides some external transient filtering and ESD protection, but is more reliable with a series R like R2 which can be before but better attack time if after the cap. (>=10k) I consider R2 as optional only when low ESR caps are used.


Then he proposes a solution with a cap across the CMOS input. (may he intended that for TTL only but the note says "all cases" . If you use a low ESR Cap, then there must be a series R between Cap and CMOS input for the situation of abrupt Vcc drop and prevent transient current on ESD diode.

R2 increases attack time to 0V and seems only necessary if you need to prevent false triggers from to short a button depression. But it also reduces slew rate putting non-hysteresis CMOS into linear mode and possible oscillations as described during transition mode due to the CMOS linear gain of noise. ( gain = 10x per stage)

This also can be used for Power on RESET with external switch if RC exceeds minimum requirements.
Since Schmitt triggers in CMOS use 2/3 Vcc hysteresis, rise time =T (T@60%V is close to hysteresis threshold.)

 

[gophert]

Not sure of the logic , how can you 'Dislike' a question...

Please tell me this is not a subsidiary of facebook

You missed the exchange. It was warranted.

The OP asked about debouncing a switch.

There was a reply that included a single link to debouncing by Member1

Member2 posed copied one circuit from Member1's link as a suggested solution.

Member1 asks Member2 to explain the logic of using a diode - it was from Member1's recommended link! Why doesn't he explain why the diode is there!

I didn't like the circular quest to be superior.

 

[Tony Stewart]

your perception may be right or wrong. suggesting a link which is thorough but incomplete does not always imply agreement or understanding.

 

[gophert]

your perception may be right or wrong. suggesting a link which is thorough but incomplete does not always imply agreement or understanding.

My perception is my perception. There is no right or wrong associated with perception. If someone is perceived as being a bull in a China shop, they can elect to soften their approach and stop being a bull or I need to be educated and convinced that what appears to be a bull in a China shop is actually not a bull, or, that the bull will not act like a bull while he is in the China shop.