• Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Nikola Tesla 3, 6 and 9 ... "Keys to the Universe"

Status
Not open for further replies.

pnielsen

Member
A famous quote by Nikola Tesla states, “If you only knew the magnificence of the three, the six and the nine … then you would have a key to the universe."

Putting New Age interpretations aside, it might be assumed he used the relationship between these numbers in his experiments. For example, to increase the efficiency of wireless transmission.

I am wondering what are the most likely options for applying this principle to the design and operation of the pivotal Tesla coil. Wavelengths of conductors, coil dimensions, mass of copper, pulse rates, frequency ratios, etc?

Can anyone venture a guess?
 
Last edited:

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Can anyone venture a guess?
Not really given Tesla was a cross discipline sort of guy so each number has different meanings and values of significance depending on what area of engineering it's being used in.

That, and he was a bit luney too so not everything he said and claimed to be true is factually so.
 

nsaspook

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Telsa was an outstanding engineer and inventor for the 1890's.
 

pnielsen

Member
Please allow me to clarify the intent of my original post by eliminating the 3, 6, 9 numerals.

What are the achievable design options for incorporating several different frequencies or wavelengths into the functioning of a "standard" Telsa coil of the type that appears most often in Tesla's patents?
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
What are the achievable design options for incorporating several different frequencies or wavelengths into the functioning of a "standard" Telsa coil of the type that appears most often in Tesla's patents?
It depends on what type of coil system you are building and for what purpose and to what size.

As far as 'standard coil' goes there isn't one any more than there's a 'standard vehicle' on the road anywhere in the world.

Each design is typically application specific and that application dictates its overall component dimensions and characteristics.
 

pnielsen

Member
In the context of my OP, the intended design and purpose relate solely to the TC's ability to incorporate 2 or 3 electrodynamic relationships based upon a numerical series, e.g. 3, 6 and 9 ... being harmonic intervals of 3.

Apart from that, the style of construction does not matter. Although I would expect it to fall within Tesla's known scope of work, which is why I referred to it as "standard". This would still allow for multiple secondary coils of different wavelength ratios, etc.

Any ideas? If not, does anyone know of a dedicated TC builder forum?
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
In the context of my OP, the intended design and purpose relate solely to the TC's ability to incorporate 2 or 3 electrodynamic relationships based upon a numerical series, e.g. 3, 6 and 9 ... being harmonic intervals of 3.

Apart from that, the style of construction does not matter. Although I would expect it to fall within Tesla's known scope of work, which is why I referred to it as "standard". This would still allow for multiple secondary coils of different wavelength ratios, etc.
I'm completely lost on what you are wanting at this point. Do you just want certain aspects of the designs to incorporate ratios of those numbers or the mathematics to have those numbers in them specifically (so as to validate some imagined value you have for them) or something else, because right now I can't make sense of what you are wanting when you dismiss the actual concepts of the physical design as not being important when they are the very things that determine if any TC design will work in any way.

Just trying to dismiss a growing 'autistic wants/views' vibe I am presently getting.
 

pnielsen

Member
I am simply looking for ways in which Tesla might have incorporated the numeric values of 3, 6, and 9 into the actual functioning of his TC's. For example, as a relationship between the resonant frequency and other design features. Obviously, the options for doing so would be limited by the way in which a TC works. My lack of knowledge of these options is the reason for my question.
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
I am simply looking for ways in which Tesla might have incorporated the numeric values of 3, 6, and 9 into the actual functioning of his TC's.
I think you drank some bad pseudo-science kool aid. :rolleyes:

They are just numbers and they show up everywhere in life that can be represented by any numerical value real, imagined or other, not just in TC setups.

In Tesla's original coil systems designs (and everything else) he also used numbers like 1,2 4, 5, 7, 8 and 0 plus countless ratios that can be factored into endless subsets and multiples of them as well.
 

large_ghostman

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
It came at a time of misunderstanding. If you take the Fibonacci sequence or one of the other systems, 3,6,9 are often left out. So they were considered special, in a way they are but not to the extent they have been elevated.

Those of a certain way of thinking believe they hold the key to Vortex theory, actually they dont because if you wind a coil using 3,6,9 as your primary points, you end up with a net loss 31% lower (yes i tried). What i dont understand is why people dont think of the real numbers, 1,2,4,8,16 the way blastoms split or bacteria produce, the proteins in a coat. Use the Fibonacci sequence in a coil and you get the lowest loss, still a loss but its lower.

Your always going to get those that think the unusual is special, look at how the modern interpretation of a witch is drawn. The spindly legs that are crooked, the nose that is hooked and bent and the ugly face.
How many realize this is actually a over done picture of someone who lived 4-500 years ago. Yes they were considered a which and yes one the few who were excepted as such and not burnt or drowned. They did alot of good and helped many people, i believe the real name was Ursula something.

Her ability to heal came from her looks, she shunned people because they disliked her look. She instead spent decades in the forests studying herbs and plants and animals. She was born and lived in a cave, its still there. She is more commonly known as Old mother Shipton and her cave is still a tourist attraction. At the time she was witch, later she became known as one the first herbalists. You can do anything with maths if you try hard enough.
 

JimB

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
if you wind a coil using 3,6,9 as your primary points, you end up with a net loss 31% lower
Are you talking about coils of wire here, as in inductors?
If so please explain these "primary points" amongst other things.

JimB
 

large_ghostman

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Are you talking about coils of wire here, as in inductors?
If so please explain these "primary points" amongst other things.

JimB
LOL no Jim this is those stupid Starship coils!!! Thats what the OP is on about, I spent hours winding them simply because they looked cool on projects (i was really young). Give me 2 secs i will think of the best way to explain

EDIT looking for a 2 drawing to explain the points
 

large_ghostman

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Ok got one
circle.GIF

these been around a very long time, my mum has one done with wool in a frame when she was at primary school.

Imagine this done in 3D, you do every thrid point 3 times around, then 6 at times around then 9, then you take the first point 6 and start again, and so on
 

large_ghostman

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
The primary points are just where you take taps from or the points you start the next wind from. depends if its a starship or rodine coil. It interested me back, what can i say........ dont work as well as a fidget spinner though
 

unclejed613

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
I am simply looking for ways in which Tesla might have incorporated the numeric values of 3, 6, and 9 into the actual functioning of his TC's. For example, as a relationship between the resonant frequency and other design features. Obviously, the options for doing so would be limited by the way in which a TC works. My lack of knowledge of these options is the reason for my question.
actually, if you look at the US power grid, there are some features of what you are talking about. AC power in the USA uses a line frequency of 60Hz, it is distributed in 3 phases 120 degrees apart, the nominal outlet voltages are 120V, 240V, 480V. 3-phase power is the minimum number of phases needed to insure that the simplest motors always start turning in the same direction. in fact, servo motors also use 3 phases for the same reason, to insure the slave device follows the motion of the master device without ambiguity. the choice of 60hz as the frequency was chosen by Tesla, who, after building the first AC station at Niagara Falls, saw that Westinghouse's suggested line frequency of 25Hz caused flickering in various types of lamps (and so did 30Hz), so Tesla built the second power station using 60Hz. it actually worked out better than 50Hz (which was adopted in europe) because the amount of copper and iron in generation and transmission hardware saved was substantial (because of the higher frequency, the amount of copper required was less because the inductance needed was smaller, and the amount of iron for a 60Hz transformer core is also a bit less). as for the outlet voltages being 120V, 240V, and 480V, that has actually bounced around a bit, and has been changed as time has passed, going through slight increases: 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, and 125. i'm not really sure what continuously drives the change, most likely improvements in the transmission hardware. officially, it's 120, and has been since the last DC systems were phased out in the late 50s-early 60s (interestingly, there were still "hot-chassis" AC/DC powered radios and TVs manufactured into the late 1970s. but, there's really nothing "special" about 60hz power, or the outlet voltages. if we really wanted to update the power system, and make it more efficient for the amounts of steel and copper used in distribution, a good start would be to switch to something like the military 400Hz systems. a 100W transformer at 400Hz, requires less than 1/4 the amount of steel and copper to produce than a 100W transformer for 60Hz. Tesla may have used ratios of 3's in a lot of his coil construction, but much of it would have simply been that's what he preferred to use. sometimes the math is easier too when you do something like that.
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
a good start would be to switch to something like the military 400Hz systems.
Unfortunately in long high powered transmission lines 400 HZ gets buggy rather quickly due to skin effects, capacitive coupling, transmission line impedance quirks and a few other lesser known problems that were some of the primary factors in the development of the high powered DC systems just because of their cumulative effect issues that show up at just 50 - 60 hz. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

EE World Online Articles

Loading
Top