first try with press-n-peel blue... results!

[evandude]

all I can say is... I no longer care if it's 5 times the price of photo paper it will probably be cheaper in the end anyway, because with the photo paper it was just cheap enough that I didn't mind wasting most of a sheet by only printing off a few patterns and then cutting them out and tossing the rest.

the press-n-peel forces me to cut out small pieces and tape them to a piece of regular paper, so a whole sheet should last me dozens of boards... and even at $1.50 or more per sheet, it should only cost me pennies per board!

and the best part is, judging by those results, I think I might be safe with even finer traces and separations than usual. I have generally stuck with a minimum of 12 mil traces, and tried to keep separation about 10 mils. I think I can now go with 10 mil traces and 5 mil separation when I need to, which will come in very handy as I do more and more surface-mount stuff.

(I apologize for the image file sizes but I wanted to retain some detail)

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[williB]

dude , how big is the circuit board ?? cant tell from the pics..

 

[evandude]

oh crap, didn't think about that.

there, I added another pic for size comparison.

 

[williB]

Wow its microscopic..!! 8)

 

[samcheetah]

great!!!!

bravo!!!

 

[DigiTan]

That's some nice quality there! I've never seen a press-n-peel in action before. Good work!

 

[ljcox]

Evandude,
You said "the press-n-peel forces me to cut out small pieces and tape them to a piece of regular paper".

Does this mean you have to cut out the tracks etc. by hand? I assumed it would be done on a computer and then printed onto the press n peel.

Also, the coin does not help us non US types to guage the size. What is the diameter of the coin?

Len

 

[evandude]

i mean that i cut out a small piece of press-n-peel, tape it to a regular piece of paper, and print onto that. that way i am still printing onto the press-n-peel, but only using a small piece instead of a whole sheet.

the ability to work with finer traces and separations would be pretty useless if i had to cut traces by hand :lol:

and according to the first website i found on google, a quarter is 24.26 mm in diameter.

and believe it or not, this isn't the smallest board i've done by any means. although, in the examples below, you can see the limitations of the photo paper toner transfer at such a small size.(I hope to be able to get even smaller with press-n-peel)

for reference, that connector in the first pic is one of those CDROM audio connectors. the board is nothing but an 8-pin PIC 16F675 in a SOIC package, and a decoupling cap.

https://www.eegeek.net/mp3box/DSCF0076.JPG
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[jrz126]

Wow man that's great. My problem is that when I use the photo paper, I end up with a couple traces not sticking, then I have to start all over. Do you think I'd have that problem with this stuff?

ljcox, the quarter is about .875" (2.2225 cm)

 

[evandude]

I can't say for sure, since this is the first board i've done with it. however, it looks like it will be an improvement. for one thing, the back of the sheet is smooth plastic, so you can easily slide the iron around on it without applying too much force parallel to the surface (which could cause smearing or smudging) and you can also see it while you're ironing which gives a decent idea of how well stuck it is. it peels off very easily so I don't think you'll get many broken traces as long as you ironed reasonably well.

 

[Dean Huster]

When folks talk about the PnP Blue, you never hear them mention the one quality that PnP hawks. The "blue" part actually adds to the toner base to give you a thicker resist and less pinholing (was that a word?). I've always liked it but have have had the kahoonies to run tape through the laser printers I use, not knowing what will melt, what will goo up, etc. What kind of tape do you use, Evandude?

Dean

 

[pike]

I think i'll stick with my photo method, much much more sharper line, able to go down to 2 mil ( i can verify this!). It's now hassle at all. I simply print it on normal paper with regular ink, take it to school to have it scaled down at the library with a photocopier, again onto regular paper.go home and soak the paper in oil to make it translucent, and then expose away! simple.

 

[williB]

Evan you still havnt said 'HOW' you got the press n peel on the board..
unless i missed it..
do you , print out another piece of paper and then sort of trace/press it on?? by hand?

 

[evandude]

I'd do the photo method if I could get the sensitized boards for anywhere near as cheap as i get regular ones :lol:

I think I paid about $2-3 apiece for single-sided board sheets that were 8x12 inches on ebay. at the best price I could find, a 5.9" by 11.81" sheet of fiberglass substrate sensitized board, was about $10, so it'd be about $12 or $13 for an equivalently-sized board. and can you cut down sensitized boards? it wouldn't do me much good to buy sensitized boards for small stuff if I had to use it the whole board as soon as i opened it...

and yes, I was extremely impressed with that "extra layer of resist" feature. as you can see in the pictures, the resist is very shiny... the shiny part that you are seeing is the press-n-peel (it's not blue because the toner is showing through it) I will take another pic when I actually etch, but it looks like it is going to make VERY clean traces.

 

[evandude]

williB... no, the press-n-peel is simply ironed onto the board.

in short, the whole process is:

1) print out the pattern on a piece of regular paper
2) cut out a piece of press-n-peel to fit the pattern
3) tape it onto the printout, directly over the pattern, dull side up
4) print the pattern again, in exactly the same spot (this prints it onto the press-n-peel piece)
5) trim the press-n-peel piece to size
6) clean the board (scotch-brite pad, then alcohol and a clean cloth)
7) preheat the board with the iron on about 2/3 heat
8} place the press-n-peel, pattern side down, on the board (the heat will make it stick)
9) iron it on (3-4 minutes, alternate between resting the iron on it, and applying pressure and moving it around)
10) douse the board with cold water
11) peel it off!

 

[williB]

oh .. i get it , can you use an ink jet printer , with the press n peel ?

 

[evandude]

no, it's still a toner transfer method, just like the photo paper method, so it still relies on sticking the toner to the board.

that said, I got my first laser printer for $20 from a local guy who wanted to get rid of it.. it was big and ugly and crappy but it worked, and made many a board for me. my latest printer (laserjet 1100) was bought on ebay for about $50 including shipping, from a large company that had replaced several hundred of its printers in a big technology upgrade. if you look around on ebay you can find the same printer for reasonable prices. (just make sure it comes with the cable, those are proprietary)

it's a bit of an investment, but for me, it's a good one anyway, because I have no reason to do color printing, so I can print off loads of things on the laser printer (school papers and such) without going through expensive ink cartridges like candy... the toner cartridges last for a couple thousand pages, and are only about $30 to replace from ebay (which is as much as some ink cardtridges anyway)

 

[williB]

thanks .. a local company threw one out , a little while back , so i did a little dumpster fishing ..lol
it was worth it , for a Laserjet 4mv , and it worked !! just it printed light so i figure it just needs a new toner cartrige..

 

[evandude]

edit: WILLIB! you need to look at this!
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that is the service manual for the laserjet 4mv! I can't believe I found that, I had to BUY one for mine :lol:

anyway, it looks like you can set darkness in software, with the same software settings my laserjet 1100 uses (advanced options in printer settings, turn economode OFF and set REt to "DARK")

usually a low toner cartridge will cause white streaks, rather than even lightening, so I think you should mess with darkness settings before you try replacing the cartridge.

 

[ljcox]

ljcox, the quarter is about .875" (2.2225 cm)

Thanks, I had no idea which coin it was. And thanks for the metric conversion. I gave imperial away as a bad joke 30 years ago.

And thanks Evandude for your response.

Len