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first try with press-n-peel blue... results!

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evandude said:
http://www.eegeek.net/electronics/pnpetching.htm

I just etched my first board using a press-n-peel transfer. came out perfect! (except for some minor scratches due to apparently getting some dirt under my iron while i was rubbing it hard on the film... oops... only caused some minor, harmless blemishes)
Click to expand...
Wow, it looks awesome... Can you tell us what kind of tape did you use to attach PnP onto normal Paper? Also tell me more about you etching method, never seen it before :oops:
 
I just used clear packing tape. hasn't shown any signs of melting in the printer or anything so I think it's pretty safe.

I agree, that board came out very good. I am very happy with press-n-peel... it's good to find a product that works like it's supposed to... or even better :)

as for my etching method, I take 1/4 cup of water, and microwave it until it's boiling, and put it in a ziplock freezer bag (I use freezer bags because they're extra tough)

and then I spoon in 3 or 4 teaspoons of sodium persulphate, and shake until dissolved.

then I put in the boards, carefully force out as much air as possible, and seal the bag. then i can hold the bag in my hands as I etch, which allows me to agitate it by hand to make sure it etches quickly and evenly. it's also REALLY easy to see the progress of the board, as you can see in the pictures...

and it only uses a very small amount of etchant at a time, so it's not wasteful. sodium persulphate turns blue (like windex) as it etches, so when it gets very blue it's time to replace it. I can usually get 3 or 4 boards in a baggie of etching solution... and when it's time to clean up... i just have to dump the solution down the toilet, and throw away the bag. doesn't get much easier than that!
 
evandude said:
I just used clear packing tape. hasn't shown any signs of melting in the printer or anything so I think it's pretty safe.

I agree, that board came out very good. I am very happy with press-n-peel... it's good to find a product that works like it's supposed to... or even better :)

as for my etching method, I take 1/4 cup of water, and microwave it until it's boiling, and put it in a ziplock freezer bag (I use freezer bags because they're extra tough)

and then I spoon in 3 or 4 teaspoons of sodium persulphate, and shake until dissolved.

then I put in the boards, carefully force out as much air as possible, and seal the bag. then i can hold the bag in my hands as I etch, which allows me to agitate it by hand to make sure it etches quickly and evenly. it's also REALLY easy to see the progress of the board, as you can see in the pictures...

and it only uses a very small amount of etchant at a time, so it's not wasteful. sodium persulphate turns blue (like windex) as it etches, so when it gets very blue it's time to replace it. I can usually get 3 or 4 boards in a baggie of etching solution... and when it's time to clean up... i just have to dump the solution down the toilet, and throw away the bag. doesn't get much easier than that!
Click to expand...
Cool, is this method enviromentally friendly? I don't feel confident dumping chemicals down the toilet...

Also, what's the price of PnP where you live? I can only get it for $5 pcs, and that Expensive!
 
I don't know how environmentally friendly it is, but I don't know of any other very good ways to dispose of it... but that's part of the reason I try to use as little as possible! according to the safety data, it doesn't appear to be extremely toxic as such, so I doubt that in a watered-down form it would be all that harmful. but if you look at the instructions on the radio shack etching solution (or in the little instruction manual if you buy the etching kit) they tell you to dispose of it by flushing it down the toilet. granted, that's ferric chloride, but I can't imagine this stuff is all that different.

I bought it online for about $1.50 a sheet (2 packs of 5 sheets each = about $15)

you can buy it straight from the manufacturer or from elexp.com for about $29 for 20 sheets, however I'm sure getting anything shipped to your country might be a challenge.

but if you look on their site (techniks.com) you will see they list themselves as the international distributor, so you should email them and see what kind of postage they'd charge.
 
looks good but... i don't see etched board... :)
 
Yes i also used that PnP stuff the other day, works like its should :D

But that stuff in aust is a full rip off, AUD$35 for a pack of 5(21x28cm)
 
ouch! where did you order from??

according to some research I did a couple weeks ago, it's not terribly expensive to send regular letter-type parcels between the US and australia... over here, you can buy a pack of 20 sheets for $28 USD ($36 AUD) plus shipping...

have you tried buying from the manufacturer? they say they are an international distributor... even if they charge some outrageous shipping price, it might still be cheaper to have someone over here order a pack and then mail it to you...
 
hehe, my PCB from sparkfun just came through:

**broken link removed**

US$32 inc. postage to UK, 19 days.

Next time the cost of the board will be half and total will be $19.50.

Which is not bad! $5.00 sq. inch for first order and $2.50 sq. inch if first order passed their DRC OK.
 
it should be extremely obvious whether it's a laser or inkjet printer... if nothing else, if it has ink cartridges, it's an inkjet, and if it has a huge toner cartridge, then it's a laser... and laser printers generally have much more complex mechanisms and weigh a whole lot more...

is this the printer you're talking about?
**broken link removed**

if so, then it is definitely not a laser, and thus won't work... chances are, any printer that can print photos, and doesn't weigh a ton, probably isn't a laser.

and pittuck, that looks very nice... however that's a pretty bad deal for prototyping! I assume if you make any changes to the board, you'll have to pay the $5/sq. in. again until you get everything straightened out? I thought the real advantage of the sparkfun PCB deal was that it was cheap enough for prototyping, however by charging couble for the first run of the board, they are sort of discouraging one-off prototyping...

I can't do plated thru-holes, or solder mask... (can do a form of silkscreen, but have never bothered) but I can easily make a board in under an hour.
 
well the problem is if they did not do the $5 option then they would have to stop the service.

I am pretty into the PCB serivce, i make the DRC. Anyhow the basic reason is there are loads of people with buggy boards, dril file problems, gerber output problems etc. etc. It was not the problems which casued the erm problem, but the time taken to explain how to fix the problems :D

Either way its still a good deal, best way to 'beat the system' and still get the required feedback is to get a $5 sq. inch and use the airmail option, may be weeks till u get it but u can easily get the next board out as soon as the first one passes DRC. Will be $13 or so overhead on ur order. Not too bad...
 
they should supply some DRC files... for eagle at least, all you have to do is load that file and run the DRC. it would let people fix their problems on their own before submitting things, so theoretically fewer people would attempt to submit failing boards, which should allow them to reduce their "first board" price.

if they did that, they could also do things on a customer-by-customer basis... ie - if you had already made a board with them that passed DRC, they could "trust" you a little more, and only charge you the $2.50/sq. in. for future boards, unless you submitted a failing one, then they could kick that particular one back up to $5 as before.

oh well, maybe someone should suggest that to them... i'm too lazy ;)
 
evandude said:
they should supply some DRC files... for eagle at least, all you have to do is load that file and run the DRC. it would let people fix their problems on their own before submitting things, so theoretically fewer people would attempt to submit failing boards, which should allow them to reduce their "first board" price.

if they did that, they could also do things on a customer-by-customer basis... ie - if you had already made a board with them that passed DRC, they could "trust" you a little more, and only charge you the $2.50/sq. in. for future boards, unless you submitted a failing one, then they could kick that particular one back up to $5 as before.

oh well, maybe someone should suggest that to them... i'm too lazy ;)
Click to expand...

Well the DRC settings are the same as the defult eagle files. Eagle is very much the most supported CAD software for the Sparkfun service. With the tutorial and the files they provide it takes 2 or 3 mins to output the files. Only thing now is that Eagle has now chosen to use 2.4 formatting, which is not a large problem, and either takes 2 mins to fix for good or 20 secs to write a line saying the drill file is 2.4.

The problems come from other programs, missing drill tool info is a big problem and other software which the users use are not as easy to configure (ala vutrax).

When i get the online submission service working most things should clear up and the price might come down, perhaps not totally, but *possibly* a dollar or two. Nathan has said repeatedly that they get little money from the service as it is!

Anyhow, the extra charges were considered, originally it was a $5 charge to bug fix a broken board, but it would be less popular. ATM the system works and there is enough orders to make the pannels, if more customers are needed the prices will go down ;)

hehe, its too late, i type too much when its late, let me sleep :cry: lol
 
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