DIY Toner Transfer Paper (cheap and easy))

[PulsarProFX]

I talked to a large oil company rep and he told me not to bother with HHO because oil is already cheap and easy. Why reinvent the wheel when we can leave the difficult "support" things like this to companies who can do it best at low cost.

Obviously you jest but in the wrong direction. We have in fact not figured out all that is necessary to generate enough gas "on demand" fast enough. We only know the basics. We have barely scratched the surface on tapping the incredible energy in water, so "no", we aren't duplicating or reinventing any "wheel" anywhere.

This is the new frontier to run all internal combustion engines on water. It's going to be heavily involved in electronics. We can do it now for lawn mowers and small engines. It's pretty amazing to just pour water into a lawnmower! The trick is to be able to create a LOT of HHO on demand for vehicle acceleration. At that point we'll only need oil companies for aviation grade fuels and lubrication. Water immense power is completely untapped. The interesting thing about HHO is that it's incredibly easy to make right now in your garage with simple setups. Electric cars will be a non-starter in a few more years of us "tinkerers" to get the tricks ironed out for Detroit. Unfortunately, I'm sure Japan will have the first HHO out. They know how to look ahead... a lesson we can't seem to learn decade after decade as a growing 2nd rate county in production capability. Sad but true.

 

[Mike_2545]

Obviously you jest but in the wrong direction. We have in fact not figured out all that is necessary to generate enough gas "on demand" fast enough. We only know the basics. We have barely scratched the surface on tapping the incredible energy in water, so "no", we aren't duplicating or reinventing any "wheel" anywhere.

This is the new frontier to run all internal combustion engines on water. It's going to be heavily involved in electronics. We can do it now for lawn mowers and small engines. It's pretty amazing to just pour water into a lawnmower! The trick is to be able to create a LOT of HHO on demand for vehicle acceleration. At that point we'll only need oil companies for aviation grade fuels and lubrication. Water immense power is completely untapped. The interesting thing about HHO is that it's incredibly easy to make right now in your garage with simple setups. Electric cars will be a non-starter in a few more years of us "tinkerers" to get the tricks ironed out for Detroit. Unfortunately, I'm sure Japan will have the first HHO out. They know how to look ahead... a lesson we can't seem to learn decade after decade as a growing 2nd rate county in production capability. Sad but true.

Wow, I think you just lost a Lot of customers with that statement...

 

[3v0]

Looks like a train wreck to me. It seems we have turned into a pack of wolves.

The oil and transfer paper comparison is a poor choice. $15 worth of paper will last most people a year or more.

Most cars are driven at least 10K miles per year. At 20 mpg they use 500 gallons. At $2 a gallon the is $1000 a year for gas (adjust as needed).

Even at the modest cost of $2 per gallon saving on transportation are 100 times greater then on making your own transfer paper.

A better comparison would be the saving from making your own resistors.

3v0

 

[Rolf]

Soak times & Toner release "kit".............

Left picture shows a standard toner /magazine paper and a Elmer's glue coated after soaking in hot simmering water, for 3 minutes.
Right picture shows the $6.00 "kit", you can do 6 pages in 6 minutes. And there is enough glue for about 75 full pages!
The plastic clip board (blue background) came from Wal-Mart, the other two items from Ace Hardware.

 

[mramos1]

Left picture shows a standard toner /magazine paper and a Elmer's glue coated after soaking in hot simmering water, for 3 minutes.
Right picture shows the $6.00 "kit", you can do 6 pages in 6 minutes. And there is enough glue for about 75 full pages!
The plastic clip board came from Wal-Mart, the other two items from Ace Hardware.

What is the item on the left in the right picture? The spreader and the glue I get.

6 pages in 6 minutes. That is to spread them and dry time or just spread them? I might add water and a paint guy and spay mine for a thin coat.

For $6 bucks, heck, I'll try it.

The only issues I have is the 2-3 (sometimes 5) minutes getting the picture paper coating off and trust me on the plastic brush to open the back coating saves me 10 minutes.

Now if we can get the etching to 2 minutes, that would be great

I like the way I do it, but looks like you may have found something to speed things up as long as it's laser printer approved.

 

[Rolf]

What is the item on the left in the right picture? The spreader and the glue I get.

6 pages in 6 minutes. That is to spread them and dry time or just spread them? I might add water and a paint guy and spay mine for a thin coat.

For $6 bucks, heck, I'll try it.

The only issues I have is the 2-3 (sometimes 5) minutes getting the picture paper coating off and trust me on the plastic brush to open the back coating saves me 10 minutes.

Now if we can get the etching to 2 minutes, that would be great

I like the way I do it, but looks like you may have found something to speed things up as long as it's laser printer approved.

"The spreader and the glue I get." They are laying on a blue plastic clip board. Makes it easy to spread the glue and clean up. Just one bead of glue across right below the clip and a swipe with the spreader.
"as long as it's laser printer approved" I have been putting all kinds of junk through my HP printer for years, just make sure it doesn't peal or create dust and you should be fine.

Coating takes about one minute per page, so you might as well do several. The drying time is dependent on many things but 10 to 15 minutes sounds reasonable, I did not time it.

Make sure you get the correct Elmer's, just like in the picture! White glue dose't work.

 

[mramos1]

"The spreader and the glue I get." They are laying on a blue plastic clip board. Makes it easy to spread the glue and clean up. Just one bead of glue across right below the clip and a swipe with the spreader.
"as long as it's laser printer approved" I have been putting all kinds of junk through my HP printer for years, just make sure it doesn't peal or create dust and you should be fine.

Coating takes about one minute per page, so you might as well do several. The drying time is dependent on many things but 10 to 15 minutes sounds reasonable, I did not time it.

Make sure you get the correct Elmer's, just like in the picture! White glue dose't work.

Thanks for the info Rolf. Will give it a try. I have two lasers, and they are all over these days so I should be fine there. I saw it was the Elmers GEL.

Will make one, if it works will make 10-20 to hold me for months.

 

[Rolf]

Testing.............

Thanks for the info Rolf. Will give it a try. I have two lasers, and they are all over these days so I should be fine there. I saw it was the Elmers GEL.

Will make one, if it works will make 10-20 to hold me for months.

Had hoped to hear about you trial.

Anyone else here that have tried to use the Elmer's School Glue Gel Glue for release on magazine paper? Or if you prefer copy paper use two coats. I posted instructions and tools previously, cost about $ 6.00.

I am going to mail out free samples of the paper to anyone in the USA. But only to the first 10 posting their address in my Privet Message box.
You must promise to try it within 10 days and post your results here.

Rolf

The left picture of the board below is wet and distorting the traces. Showing paper release after three minutes of soaking. Picture on the right showing tools for coating the paper.

 

[kchriste]

By distorted, you mean because there are droplets of water on the PCB giving a lens effect?
What I don't get is the extra toner that appears to be left on Richard's obituary. I don't see where on the PCB that it came from; especially the thick trace near his first name.

 

[mneary]

I tried the "Elmer's School Glue Gel Glue" and found that it didn't spread well on certain substrates (certain magazines). Both spreaders I got, left rubber chips behind. With a hard rubber "brayer" (ink roller) the coating was too thick. Once I got impatient waiting for something to dry and now have a bad spot on my printer drum. The similar Elmer's school glue is almost worthless. I read somewhere about Glucose so I got some from Michaels. It doesn't spread and it never dries.

After a thoroughly entertaining weekend and about $42 in glues, foods, spreaders, and papers, my Pulsar kit arrived and I started making good boards again (except where I hosed my printer cartridge).

I'm sure there's a better way. I didn't find it.

[edit] And my luck didn't end there. My gel had been stored inverted at WalMart and the cap was clogged beyond clearing. I had to replace it with one from an old dry Elmer's bottle.[/edit]

 

[Mickster]

By distorted, you mean because there are droplets of water on the PCB giving a lens effect?
What I don't get is the extra toner that appears to be left on Richard's obituary. I don't see where on the PCB that it came from; especially the thick trace near his first name.

See attachment & match up the circles:
The paper is upside down & covering what would be shown in the orange section.

 

[Rolf]

Another picture......

See attachment & match up the circles:
The paper is upside down & covering what would be shown in the orange section.

Good observation, don't know why I posted that picture. Not a very good example.

I just made a side by side comparison, both transfered at the same time, between a magazine paper and my Elmer's treated paper.
Elmer's treated paper slid off after a few minutes in hot water any you all know what I takes to get the magazine paper off. Note, that the hot water helped even the removal of the magazine paper tremendously.
Here it is:

 

[mramos1]

I bought the glue but am worried as someone said they have a dead spot in their laser printer now?

Is it possible the glue was not dry and came off on the drum?

 

[Rolf]

I bought the glue but am worried as someone said they have a dead spot in their laser printer now?

Is it possible the glue was not dry and came off on the drum?

He admitted to putting it in the printer before the glue coated sheet was fully dry.
What was he thinking? :-(

 

[tariq7868]

this is new to me.... just going try it soon.. but i havent got laser printer ..so am going print the layout with my inkjet printer and then will get photo copy of it (powder copy) .uses also toner..how abt that ...will it do?

 

[mramos1]

this is new to me.... just going try it soon.. but i havent got laser printer ..so am going print the layout with my inkjet printer and then will get photo copy of it (powder copy) .uses also toner..how abt that ...will it do?

My laser died on my once, I did an ink jet copy and went to a copy machine. Make sure it is a 1 to 1 copy. It worked fine.

I have not tried the glue version, but picture paper works quite well with a little practice.

 

[mvs sarma]

My laser died on my once, I did an ink jet copy and went to a copy machine. Make sure it is a 1 to 1 copy. It worked fine.

I have not tried the glue version, but picture paper works quite well with a little practice.

what happened? Perhaps the drum could be cleaned up.

 

[mramos1]

what happened? Perhaps the drum could be cleaned up.

When I said it died, the toner cartridge died, but I used the ink jet in a pinch, ran to a copier and solve the problem until I could get a new cart.

Sorry about the confusion. I have two printers now and somewhere a spare cart.

 

[Rolf]

There seem too be to many kinds of picture paper and for the price I would think it would make more sense to buy a commercial paper like P-n-P or Pulsar.
I my experiments I have had little success with picture paper.
If you need white paper, like for DS PCB, then I just coat copy paper with two coats of Elmer's Jell School glue. Dry thourely before applying a second coat. (And make sure it is 100% dry before sending it through the printer).
This has replaced my magazine paper but not my P-n-P.
I don't understand all this talk about toner density, mostly from folks that uses the the Pulsar system, newer had to (even if I knew how) when using P-n-P. And doing these experiments with DIY toner transfer doesn't seem to require it either.
BTW my printer is a HP 1018 with a cheap reconditioned toner cartridge.

In my book, if you can't transfer (including warm-up time) and be ready for etching in 6 minutes then something is wrong.

 

[Mr RB]

...
I don't understand all this talk about toner density, mostly from folks that uses the the Pulsar system, newer had to (even if I knew how) when using P-n-P. And doing these experiments with DIY toner transfer doesn't seem to require it either.
...

I agree with that. My last run using pressnpeel blue I switched from high density back to standard toner density. The result was sharper, less toner "squish out" on fine lines. Since the pnp adds an extra blue layer over the toner it was still 100% fill over the large ground areas (no holes) so i'll just use standard toner density now. It also runs a bit quicker (or cooler?) through the laser printer on standard too.