DIY Toner Transfer Paper (cheap and easy))

[mramos1]

Magazine paper is the same thing as Presentation Paper they sell it at office max
it comes off easier then the photo paper.
sand paper i clean copper pipe with it 220. I'm going to get some 600 to day
etchant? I don't no what it has in it I got it at radio shack it looks like oil.

I will look for some next trip to the office depot. I use picture paper (hammermill brand) and I guess it is between what you used and photo paper, photo paper is a pain to get the coating off. Picture paper, you can use your thumbs and get it off with a small amount of work.

I tried hero999's idea "way" back but found the rags in the US are thick and thin and some crumbled up in the printer. As no one new exactly what magazine to use (different areas in the world). Though playboy I think was brought up and I had none of them.

So this looks like something to try. As for the FC, turns have I have 9 bottles of it I will never use again. I will only use the pool acid and peroxide). Much faster and less bad things to breath for me.

Anyone in S.E. Florida that needs come ferric chloride PM me.

 

[MrDEB]

YES on the muratic acid/hydrogen peroxide

as for cleaning Pulsar recommends using scotch-brite pads.
I myself like 600 wet/dry under running water.
comes out very bright and smooth.
also learned that the lighter boards (1/2 oz) are best.
been using 2oz boards but takes forever and the boards are thick so light doesn't shine through it (helps in locating any bad traces)

 

[Hero999]

I don't know what weight my copper clad board is. I bought it from Maplin's and it wasn't specified.

Thicker copper might take longer to etch but the lower resistance of thicker boards is important for high current stuff.

 

[mramos1]

I don't know what weight my copper clad board is. I bought it from Maplin's and it wasn't specified.

Thicker copper might take longer to etch but the lower resistance of thicker boards is important for high current stuff.

Good point on the thicker copper.

When I read "so light doesn't shine through it" I assumed the fiberglass board during etching. Did not think about the copper layer and thickness.

 

[3v0]

And you print on the back side of it?

The backside of my label paper is very different then the slippery surface to which the labels were attached. If that is the case you want the front side after the labels come off.

I used to use this method for printing the silk screen.

3v0

 

[Rolf]

mix up a water starch solution (heavy on the starch) then dip the paper into the solution.
allow to completely dry
then try a toner transfer.
maybe add some cornstarch to mix?
OR
use rubbing alcohol instead of water. would dry faster.or a mixture of rubbing alcohol/water??

It is your idea, we'll let you try it first!
Let us know how it works out.

 

[3v0]

Good point on the thicker copper.

When I read "so light doesn't shine through it" I assumed the fiberglass board during etching. Did not think about the copper layer and thickness.

There is another factor. The heavier the copper is the longer it takes to etch and the more it will undercut traces. Not a problem with heavy power traces but bad news for very fine line.

3v0

 

[mramos1]

It is your idea, we'll let you try it first!
Let us know how it works out.

If it works, I'd do a bunch of sheets at one time and store them. I would not want to wait for them to dry each time. I like Eagle Cad to product in hand in 1 hour. I have that now on a simple low parts count board.

When I have time, I will try the presentation paper (Hero999's rag idea from way back as I'm now told is presentation paper) and see if it's better than what I use. I had mixed luck with thin rag paper jams.

My delay in the whole process is getting the paper gloss coating off the copper. Currently I rough up the back of the paper with a plastic brush after a short dip (less that 30 seconds) in warm water, re-dip in warm water and that does it for me in a couple minutes. But I would like to have it fall off, a rinse and go. No rub over a couple time to make sure all that coating came off the toner.

If Pulsar paper person wants to send me a sheet I will give an honest review (and yes I have tried the PnP many years ago).

What I do works well enough. And it sounds like they (Pulsar) takes it to another level. I do not need my boards to look like they are manufactured. But still game to see if their transfer paper is better than what I do now.

Man, if I came here from the outside on toner transfer to PCB I would be here for a day reading with all the posts, thank God I do not need a grid tie hookup.

 

[mramos1]

There is another factor. The heavier the copper is the longer it takes to etch and the more it will undercut traces. Not a problem with heavy power traces but bad news for very fine line.

3v0

Another good point. I make my power traces wider on the boards. Nothing I do is really high power though. If I needed higher power I could solder over the traces and leave a big pad for a heavier gauge copper wire going to what I need.

 

[MrDEB]

Yes the heaver boards take a long time

even takes longer to get hot enought for the transfer in the laminiator.
To cut down on etching I have been filling all the unused areas so they won't etch.
just put large spaces between traces and filled areas.

 

[3v0]

Some of the guys over on the yahoo DIYpcb group have been fitting their laminators with their own heat controls.

Mine works find but I let it run for about 10 or 15 minutes after the unit claims it is ready. A nice digital readout would be handy.

3v0

 

[Wond3rboy]

Hi here are 2 pictures of a board that i did.I have used Ferric Chloride to etch the baords(got them in between 1 to 2 minutes this time since less copper to etch).

About the uniform ironing. I use a bedsheet(or any single layer cloth) to cover the board with the paper on top and then iron. That way no matter if you push too hard on any side it wont ruin the print and you well get a perfect print(even with the paper i use).

About the Copper Chloride Acid etchant.Is there any way one can use it with out the acid cause i am not allowed to keep acid in the house(hell i am not even allowed to keep Ferric Chloride in the Fridge!). If not then what is the simplest way to nuetralize Ferric Chloride before disposing it off.

 

[mneary]

FeCl does not need refrigeration. Mine is OK at room temperature since I bought it in 1967.

Precipitate the copper out first with baking soda, dry the precipitate and wrap it waterproof for the trash. Keep the copper out of the food chain.

The remaining FeCl should be well diluted and kept away from any metal or fixtures that you don't want stained. It's used by the ton in waste water treatment, but keep away from children in any concentration.

 

[Wond3rboy]

The temperature here is like 38 to 40 degrees.

After precipitating the FeCl we can reuse it or dump it?

@MrDeB, Boncuk gave a neat little trick of filling up unused spaces in Eagle. I used it in the board above.

 

[MrDEB]

unused spaces I use a filled plane

any other way??
in express pcboard it has a filled plane that you can specify what clearance you want .
then just cover the entire board and presto you have a filled plane with specified trace clearances.

 

[Rolf]

any other way??
in express pcboard it has a filled plane that you can specify what clearance you want .
then just cover the entire board and presto you have a filled plane with specified trace clearances.

Fantastic! I have used ExpressPCB for years and newer noticed (found out) what that icon was used for.
It has of cause an extensive manual that I thought I didn't need to read because everything seemed so intuitive. I naturally had checked out several other free programs first.
Thanks MrDEB!

 

[PulsarProFX]

You guys are chasing your tails...

If you want to make a "water-release" [ADVERT-REMOVED] (Toner Transfer Paper) do yourself a big favor and Google "Dextrin". That's the generic name for the "recipe". It requires a LOT more than mere starch to make this work. It's a byproduct of sulfuric acid and a whole host of other "goodies" to make a perfect release system around the top fibers of the paper.

For the effort you'd have to go through to recreate then try to coat uniformly over a very coarse loose-weave paper (and no body has a knife-coater to do this properly), doesn't it make more sense to purchase this inexpensive paper to give you a perfect release? It only costs about 1.6 cents/sq. in and you can send a VERY SMALL piece of this paper through ANY laser printer or copier using a simple "plain paper carrier" trick (explained on the very informative website).

Make life easy on yourselves and stop trying to reinvent the wheel! My God we've got too many of them already. You guys need to spend time on HHO as the next wave of the future! (ie. google "HHO" for Hydrogen Hydrogen Oxygen development to run stock engines on water - it's now viable!). [CONTEXT-EDITED]

Just a thought I wanted to share with you guys unless you absolutely must perform timely exercises in futility.

Frank
PulsarProFX.com

MOD EDIT: I have removed the advertising. Please read the rules.

 

[be80be]

Make life easy on yourselves and stop trying to reinvent the wheel! My God we've got too many of them already. You guys need to spend time on HHO as the next wave of the future! (ie. google "HHO" for Hydrogen Hydrogen Oxygen development to run stock engines on water - it's now viable!). Spend your time more wisely on new ideas and projects! Leave the difficult "support" things to whose who do it best at low cost.

Just a thought I wanted to share with you guys unless you absolutely must perform timely exercises in futility.

I have to say I'm with you brother. Not much use wasting time with it. If there would be better way we would no it by now.

 

[DirtyLude]

Make life easy on yourselves and stop trying to reinvent the wheel! My God we've got too many of them already. You guys need to spend time on HHO as the next wave of the future! (ie. google "HHO" for Hydrogen Hydrogen Oxygen development to run stock engines on water - it's now viable!). Spend your time more wisely on new ideas and projects! Leave the difficult "support" things to whose who do it best at low cost.

Just a thought I wanted to share with you guys unless you absolutely must perform timely exercises in futility.

Frank
PulsarProFX.com

I talked to a large oil company rep and he told me not to bother with HHO because oil is already cheap and easy. Why reinvent the wheel when we can leave the difficult "support" things like this to companies who can do it best at low cost.

 

[Hero999]

Hi here are 2 pictures of a board that i did.I have used Ferric Chloride to etch the baords(got them in between 1 to 2 minutes this time since less copper to etch).

That's very good.

The problem I have is that my boards take ages to etch, the last one took nearly an hour.

I use sodium per sulphate and sodium bisuphate etching fluid. I know it should be slower than ferric chloride but this is ridicules.

EDIT:
Can you please take a better picture?

Do you have a scanner?

I can get far better results scanning my boards than using my digital camera.

Failing that, doe your camere have a macro mode?