WV Farmer could use a little help...

[k7elp60]

I appreciate the donation but, it isn't necessary. I can easily obtain them here. Ned, could you provide me with a simple diagram as to the proper connections? I believe this would be the easy, cost effective means to accomplish my goals. Each time the relays are powered up by the timer, the contacts would switch position and reverse the polarity of the motor. Do I understand that correctly?

I am pleased you don't need the relay. I think the circuit posted by cowboybob is fine for you. The only thing I can think of is to make sure there are diode rectifiers like 1n4001 series in parallel with each relay coil with the cathode to hot (12V+) connection of the relay. They will insure that relay coil de-energizing spike does not cause problems.
Ned

 

[shortbus=]

Personally I'd use a power window regulator assembly from a older model GM or Dodge car. Not the new style that uses a motor and cable, but the older(pre90's) type that uses a segment and pinon gear. On second thought even a newer type that uses a cable would probably work too. https://www.1aauto.com/content/articles/replacement-window-regulators.html

 

[Bugman T]

...I believe I need a drink...
This is proving itself to be much more complicated then I could have imagined. I think I've pulled a muscle in my brain.
Good Night to all.

 

[Bugman T]

The drink helped. Thanks guys for your thoughts and kind considerations. I have read and re-read every thought and suggestion and realize it's time for bribery. I'm contacting computer techs and tech schools until I find someone I can pay to show me how to assemble a simple reversing circuit. I just can't spend so much of my time on this.

 

[Bugman T]

Bears, mountain lions raccoons, I've never seen any of those in real life, 25 miles from anywhere, sounds fantastic, I'm right now sat in a manufacturing plant full of animals.

A vehicle wiper motor turns at around 30 rpm (and also has the benefit of automatically positioning itself in the park position if you suss the connections, meaning you'll only need one of your limit switches), and they usually have a crank on the output that turns round continously, extending the arm and fastening this to the door via a piece of allthread and some hinge points made from nuts & bolts gives you a slow open/close and a secure hold closed as wiper motors are usually worm/wheel drive, you cannot turn the output shaft with the power off, reversing polarity reverses the direction as you probably allready know.

If I wasnt 5000 miles away I'd rig something up for you.

Thank-you so much. You made me laugh on a rainy & unfortunate day (I think I broke my toe...) dr pepper, One man gathers what another man spills- I couldn't work like that. Today, the turkeys were strutting around the meadow. Such a sight- Oh, how I love springtime on my mountain! I'll send some pics when I have the time & opportunity.

 

[skimask87]

...I believe I need a drink...
This is proving itself to be much more complicated then I could have imagined. I think I've pulled a muscle in my brain.
Good Night to all.

Nah...you're thinking too hard. That diagram from the 1st page is all there is. Don't really need actual limit switches. Get a normally closed push button that opens the circuit with the door open (or closed) as required.

 

[Bugman T]

Probably- But, it has to work when I get home late. Maybe I can teach my chickens to beak the button (?!)...Thanks.

 

[dr pepper]

Chickens have been taught to look at a colour card then go and press the same colour button on a row of switches, so teaching them to open the door is possible, you'd need to reward them with something tasty.

Speaking of car electric window winders, some more fancy cars have an 'auto' button on the up/down switch for the window, I had a toyota with one, it was a self reseting circuit breaker, the button stayed down (or up) until the window hit the bottom (or top) at which point the current went up operating the 'breaker and the switch popped back into the central off position.

One thing about using a window winder, if you use a piece of wood the same size as the window, only square instead of car window shape, you'd be able to use most of the cars window mechanism to do the job simplifying things, if you use limit switches just drill holes in the wood to line up with up and down positions.

Heres a page explaining car relays, you might be able to make sense of the drawing above with this:

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Automotive-Relays.htm

 

[alec_t]

If you're using automotive relays be aware that their coils are current-hungry. You need a circuit which doesn't keep a coil energised for longer than it takes to raise/lower the door, otherwise your battery will drain rather quickly.

 

[tvtech]

@ alec_t

Howzit

Off topic here.....but I see you also run XP with SP3....and support ends around 14 April 2014. You made any plans yet for any other OS Windows related?

I have not and will not leave XP. Been too damn reliable so far..

Back on Topic...

Car relay coils are current hungry as you say. Contacts are heavy duty and need lots of power to switch from the coil.

Back to XP Makes me sad.

Regards,
tvtech

 

[Bugman T]

One final plea- is it possible to provide me an idiot proof diagram? From the timer with +&- out to a "polarity switching device" (ie- 4pin spst, 5 pin spdt or 8 pin dpdt relays- I now have them all) to a two (2) wire reversible motor? You see, I can't find a CW or CCW and no one here knows what I'm asking for and neither do I. I really do appreciate the input from all of you- I guess it boils down to the language of your discipline. What seems so simple to you all may as well be brain surgery- I don't know either one.

 

[Bugman T]

Chickens have been taught to look at a colour card then go and press the same colour button on a row of switches, so teaching them to open the door is possible, you'd need to reward them with something tasty.

Speaking of car electric window winders, some more fancy cars have an 'auto' button on the up/down switch for the window, I had a toyota with one, it was a self reseting circuit breaker, the button stayed down (or up) until the window hit the bottom (or top) at which point the current went up operating the 'breaker and the switch popped back into the central off position.

One thing about using a window winder, if you use a piece of wood the same size as the window, only square instead of car window shape, you'd be able to use most of the cars window mechanism to do the job simplifying things, if you use limit switches just drill holes in the wood to line up with up and down positions.

Heres a page explaining car relays, you might be able to make sense of the drawing above with this:

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Automotive-Relays.htm

My friend, I have used relays in the only manner I understand. Aux lights, radios, etc... How they can be used to reverse polarity is eluding me. Looks like I'm in for the $200 door...Problem is I need three and don't have the $600 to spare. I've looked for all the parts that you have all suggested and I now realize I'm in over my head. I'd buy us both a pint if I could, Doc. And, no- I haven't the time to teach my chickens (lol)- they already know how to do what I need- lay eggs and taste good...

 

[Bugman T]

@ alec_t

Howzit

Off topic here.....but I see you also run XP with SP3....and support ends around 14 April 2014. You made any plans yet for any other OS Windows related?

I have not and will not leave XP. Been too damn reliable so far..

Back on Topic...

Car relay coils are current hungry as you say. Contacts are heavy duty and need lots of power to switch from the coil.

Back to XP Makes me sad.

Regards,
tvtech

Mac here. Never cared for windows. I simply message, read and write on my comp.

 

[Bugman T]

Welcome, BugmanT!

Given the parts you have, this might suit your plans:
View attachment 85408

This is from an ETO thread titled "Chicken door control" (https://www.electro-tech-online.com/conversations/re-chicken-door-control.31837/)

cowboybob- Thanks. I'm carrying your diagram with me everywhere I go until I find someone that gets it. Boy, I feel so foolish and simple minded.

 

[ccurtis]

Hi Farmer,

Here's another idea. See the attached diagram. The circuit can hardly get any simpler. The motor drives the wheel. The pivoted arms open and close the door as the motor (and wheel) rotates in one direction only, choo-choo train style. The two cams are positioned so that they push against, and open, a limit switch when the door is in the open and closed positions. When the door is closed it can't be forced open because the two pivoted arms will be in a straight line parallel to the movement of the door so that no rotational force is applied to the wheel and the force works perpendicular to the shaft of the wheel. The timer switch is set to only briefly close to get the motor running at your preset times. When either cam hits the limit switch, the motor stops until the timer switch momentarily closes again. You can install a pushbutton switch near the door, connected in parallel with the limit switch to operate the door locally. That may not be necessary, however, if the timer allows you to manually close its switch momentarily.

 

[Bugman T]

Before I begin my day-
I apologize for allowing my frustration boil over. You have all been very kind and I am ashamed. In most situations, I am a very patient man. My weakness is my opportunity- words that I have taught my students in the past and, apparently, forgotten.

I found out last evening that I have a neighbor that is an electronic "wiz" and spoke with him on the phone. I explained what I was doing and, as well as I could, the suggestions you have provided me. He understood completely. I'll be back to show you what you have helped to create. I am certain you will be pleased.
Warmest Regards,
Tim

 

[alec_t]

Sounds like I've missed the bus, but here's an option using the timer and relays you already have, with an average standby current of only ~ 125 microamps:

 

[Bugman T]

...Bus?... you mean the run that ran me over?...Thanks, Alec. I'll show this to my friend (Good thing I helped him get the bats out of his house a couple years ago- I figure I've "payed forward" a time or two).

 

[OlPhart]

Howdy, been a while...
Am I missing something? Don't antenna motors have both up & down windings i.e. built in "reverse"?
That so, all needed is an SPDT switch, stable in either state (std 3 way wall light switch).
Mechanically linked so the end of either move flips the switch to the other direction.
Add in 2 limit switches, and the 2 timers with N.O. contacts.

Good Hunting... <<<)))
P.S. I think limit switches are also built into the antenna motor.

 

[alec_t]

Don't antenna motors have both up & down windings i.e. built in "reverse"?

Some do, some don't, it seems.