Unidentified component help

[Mnik1]

Hello. I'm trying to detect and fix boards of old turret lathe and components are from ~70's or so, made in west germany. I need help detecting this two components which i dont know exacly what they are and how to test them. This big component with metal protection (underneath is coil and inside is some kind of glas, 5-6 outs to pcb) and red component (i suppose its kind of varistor?) with 150/4 writen on it. Anyone have an idea what this is? Thanx

 

[fezder]

Do you mean those metal thingies that are labeled t1 / t2 and 1 /2? To my eye they seem to be sort of transformers, and those red ones, yeah, probadly varistors, but hard to say without any markings.
As for testing them, transformers either short inside or snap cut (so short circuit or open circuit) and hard to test without knowing values they were made. Varistors fail rarely in my understanding, they work when needed for protection. Others please correct me, but at least if they show short circuit with multimeter, they're toast, but at least they look ok to me.
edit. saw you mentioned about varistor markings, my bad

150/4 sounds like capacitor marking more, but no idea what that 4 means, or 150 in this matter....

 

[ronsimpson]

varistor?) with 150/4 writen

Could be 150 volt, 4=how much energy they can with stand.

 

[Mnik1]

Thanx! Here is another picture, without cover. I checked diodes,resistor,caps,etc so far and everything is fine. Is it posible that this big component(transformer as u said) is fried or it is last to suspect? I have 4-5 boards of this machine, and there is probably ~8-10 of this components

 

[fezder]

What are symptoms (fault, what it should do, what it does)? dWhat equipment you have? (oscilloscope etc...) I personally don't suspect transformer, at least yet.
Also, that transformer looks like also, possible solenoid/relay? What is at the ends, like inside in that tube?

 

[Mnik1]

I just find out, its probably a reed relay. Looks similar to https://standexelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/HI.png
I have basic equipement, as my basic knowledge. There is two problems with machine. Old problem,which is not that big deal; when i turn on main switch, motor of machine turn on by itself randomly witout pressing motor power switch. It does sometimes in a min or so and sometimes instntly. So 'something' randomly power a 24v relay which turn on motor idle state. New problem is big one, electromagnet which clamp gears used for moving revolver head wont work, that happend after failure of push switch which cracked, and when is substituted with similar push switch (NO+NC) it is not working. If i connect electro magnet clamp direcly, it works and after ~5sec or so, 6amp push-in fuse goes down. Thanx for help!

 

[fezder]

DUH! How I forgot reed relay...

So 'something' randomly power a 24v relay which turn on motor idle state

So, without pressing power button, something inside bypasses power button? Can you post photos where this power button is seen? Either way, depending on circuit, relay's coil is connected to either ground or vcc. If this appliance is in metal enclosure, this can be due short to casing which turns on relay (thinking out loud)

electromagnet which clamp gears used for moving revolver head wont work, that happend after failure of push switch which cracked, and when is substituted with similar push switch (NO+NC) it is not working. If i connect electro magnet clamp direcly, it works and after ~5sec or so, 6amp push-in fuse goes down

Does it trip the fuse after ~5 secs? That doesn't sound good if fuse blows, never is good thing.
what sort is this electromagnet that clamps gears? can you post photo of it too?

 

[fezder]

It does sometimes in a min or so and sometimes instntly

This sounds like bad contact, annoying. Or cracked track (or both.....). When troubleshooting this scenario, how I start, is tapping around pcb to get general idea where crack is. Also, heatgun and/or freeze spray can give these places away (bad contact doesn't contract/expand how it should and causes off behaviour) and finally, re-solder any and all suspicious looking solders. Since it's 70's apparatus, it could be bad solder joint.

 

[fezder]

If there are electrolytics, they're pretty much good to replaced as well as paper capacitors (old caps can cause leakage and ESR rises to clouds, but ESR is more concern in modern stuff) IF you give it shot with heatgun, don't blow hot air directly to these caps, they can pop.....gentle heating is enough, but with freeze-spray you can blast quite willingly.

 

[RODALCO]

That is a reed switch / with operating coil.
The switch is a glass tube with 2 contacts in it which close when a magnetic field is present.
If you hold a magnet near the reed switch it should close.
These reed switches are also often used as door switches, in alarm systems.
These switches are only rated for a few mA's at the most.

 

[RODALCO]

Red discs are M O V 's I think,
Metal Oxide Varistors
150 Volts clamping and 4 kA.

 

[RODALCO]

Couple of reed switches and a coil I found in my workshop.

 

[fezder]

Reed reminds me of mr.Reed from movie "liar liar" where jim carrey acts as lawyer that is forced for a while to tell the truth.

 

[cowboybob]

Odd that it has four terminals:

A SPDT reed switch? Or maybe a bipolar CT (is there such a thing?)?

 

[shortbus=]

Two for the coil and two for the reed switch?

 

[RODALCO]

Two for the coil and two for the reed switch?

Don't think so, that coil may have two windings maybe two imput sources.
The reed switch gets normally soldered at the end tails of the glass tube.
See picture in post 4.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Looks like a dual coil magnetic latching relay. The contacts energized with a pulse and stay energized until the opposite coil is pulsed with the right polarity. They make single coil versions too, but you have to reverse the coil polarity to change the state.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...mUvu82xEtoU6Kh3DA&sig2=UQAyJ9iqgqYyeYe_b-zCMQ

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Odd that it has four terminals:
View attachment 99893
A SPDT reed switch? Or maybe a bipolar CT (is there such a thing?)?

CBB: You can't count today. I count 6. 2 pairs for the coils, two for the reed switch.
2 Coil #1
2 Coil #2
2 Reed relay
6 Total

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Your red thingys could be one of these: **broken link removed** especially if they are in series.

or possibly a Globar Resistor. These were used in color CRT TV sets to activate the Degaussing coils on power up. It's likely that the resistance changes with temperature/current.

You may have to trace out a circuit for a better guess,

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Similar parts CL150 is a 4.7 amps steady state: http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/2458/cl-150_ge-general-electric.html?page=2#datasheet