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project small generator 3

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by sciencetoolbar, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Are you using a AC or DC current and does the meter support that current to begin with? If its an AC current and the meter is DC only you wont read anything.

    Also a schematic of everything that clarifies the individual components and their wiring layout plus the as read voltage and currents on the input and output side would help a huge amount on us and everyone else wanting to play with the concept.

    My guess is your ouput is AC and you are trying to read it with a DC meter or if it is a AC current meter the working frequency of the circuit is way above the meters frequency range limits.
     
  2. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    It wont be the meter. I dont have the time today, but give me a day or so and I will do you a quick drawing. When the leds are lit and the meter connected correctly you will have a reading.

    One obvious point I missed.............is the scale on the meter set to mA or A? You will ned to read it in mA
     
  3. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Posted same time as TC lol. You need to be able to measure on mA scale, 0.00 isnt low enough, You could well be producing around 0.005 which is enough to light the leds but not show on the meter.

    But at least we know your drawing A. So you are producing less than 1W for sure
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    TC I think its a more the fact he is producing alot of voltage but very few mA. If his meter is only capable of reading down to 10mA then he wont pick it up.
     
  6. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    So we know roughly on the motor side your pulling 1.7W. Lets be generous and say your coil side is 50% efficient, then at 220V you are producing around 0.003A.

    Looking in the first vid, this would be optimistic. But would explain why you cant measure it, also explains why 220V is killing your leds!
     
  7. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    On a good day you might be able to up the voltage another 50V or so and still light the leds, but not knowing how the leds are wired makes it impossible to guess what they need current wise.
     
  8. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Kind of my thoughts as well. I used to have a few 'corn cob' LEDs similar to what he has and they could put out a reasonable light even when running at under 1 watt input despite having had something like 8 - 10 watt nominal ratings.
     
  9. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    with a 30 mm neodymyum sphere I have reached 1540 V ac same coil...
    if i put two 7w E27 led bulbs it works if I put a 11 w led bulb is flashing.
    why the amp is so low?

    how can we use the magnetic field generated by the high speed rotating neodynyum sphere 30 mm (without the microwave turntable motor coil) ?




    ps.
    thx for the help TC
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  10. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Not sure what your asking. A rotating magnetic field, without some conductor within that field, is, simply put, a rotating magnetic field - nothing more.

    LG, if the OP were to vary the speed of the motor (up and down, by varying the voltage driving it and, thus, the frequency of the AC field being produced), that would help indicate if resonance is being achieved.
     
  11. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi CB.

    That is what I was kind of trying to say in one of the posts above. I have a BLDC out runner, it has a huge speed. Originaly it came from this........
    http://www.silabs.com/products/development-tools/mcu/8-bit/c8051f850-motor-control-reference-design

    I still have the Kit but I swapped the BLDC motor for a even more powerful one (beefed up the driver as well), I didnt get to try it much as I burnt out the pick up coil! Hence why I have to order more magnet wire to wind another coil.

    In my tests I found the speed did affect the output, so in one of the above posts I was asking the OP to try it himself. On the Oscope you see a frequency from the coil that matches (pretty much) the RPM of the motor. So I am 99.9999% sure its resonance. Whats interesting though is the magnet inside the coil, vary where you put the magnet and you get a better output. My assumption is the magnet just helps focus the magnetic waves. But I am making a guess here.

    OP
    As to your question...........I dont know how those leds are wired, it could be series string that are paralleled together. The higher rated one would have more parallel strings so need more current. The two lower ones I am guessing you wired in series?

    Stop for a bit........... I need to order some more wire etc from ebay, your AC voltage was reading that high because its not really a good sign wave generated, I dont know why but its almost square wave on the scope. Very messy and dosnt go negative much, So I dunno if you would call it AC or not. To me AC is the same Neg as pos. Also I dont know if your meter is reading RMS or not. What meter you got?

    As to some answers try different loads ;). You happened to pick leds which is good and bad. Do you understand how Leds work? I ask because at the moment I have zero idea how much knowledge you have, no point me explaining something you know.

    The magnet without a coil will produce nothing, can you get hold of an old hard drive? You want one that has the neo horse shaped magnets in :D. BUT DO NOT use them yet!!!
    With the way its going you just might stumble on enough juice to kill. The other question is what meter measured 1540V!!!! I have some decent meters including 5.5 digit bench meters and a 6.5 digit bench meter. NONE can go over 1000V.

    This is why I think the meter just gave you a reading, I dont think that is accurate at all, but I might be wrong, you have have a kick ass meter that can measure that high!!

    Now here is the truth bit...................................

    Your not learning much at the moment, your doing half experiments. I kind of did this 5 years ago when I started playing around with stuff. You quickly learn that doing things this way is fun, but it dosnt teach you a thing, except stuff like high voltage can make you scream ouch, soldering irons can leave marks that dont go. Burning finger nails smell bad for weeks.

    SOooo make a choice, do you want to play and have fun. Or do you want to play and learn? Magnets and coils are really interesting, I love generators of all kinds. But you need to start doing things properly. Spinning a magnet inside a coil with a motor, dosnt always make a generator the way you think. As shown above you actually made a generator with the magnetic fields from your motor.

    If you really want to explore this get some magnet wire (couple different gauges), get something to wind the wire onto so it makes a coil. I often use the case from plumbers PTFE tape.

    But different size coils are also good to explore, the idea is we can show you how altering different things changes what you see. For example the motor I have will top 100,000 RPM and pull about 17A (roughly). I can vary the speed from 10 RPM all the way near to top speed (cant go top speed because it vibrates the board to death). So with the right magnet on the right coil I could generate alot of Voltage with decent current. If I use alot of thin wire for the coil I get mainly high Voltage but not many Amps, if I use less wire that is thinker I get lower Voltage but decent Amps.

    But here is the nasty bit.....

    I wont go along with this until I am sure your going to do things properly, my concern is you learn just enough to go off and be dangerous. Your motor with the right coil and magnet could kill you. If you want to learn then for now drop the quest for really high voltage, you dont need it to light leds. You can light a led with 3V and 1mA, for now lets aim to keep the voltage under 30V. But we can try and up the current a bit.

    Once you start learning how it all works and relates then sure we can go for serious Voltage. But FFS lets do it safely ok. Oh and just for a laugh can you get hold of a small neon lamp? The type found in those screwdrivers that tell you if a socket is live?


    Or I am happy to hand you over to TC if you prefer that.
     
  12. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    sciencetoolbar

    TCM gave me another idea in another thread...

    Go open a samples account with Linear Technology
    https://www.linear.com/mylinear/sign_up.php

    If you want cool (well hot actually) then I will show you how to light a led and run a micro controller with a cup of coffee :D.

    Where do you live?? If your in the UK then it makes it easy to send you a couple of things.
     
  13. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Have a look at these


    And particularly this one


    At least then you can keep yourself safe ;)
     
  14. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I forgot to answer the bit about the screw etc in the coil......... Basically by adding ferrous material inside the coil your making a more efficient inductor. Same thing is probally happening with the small magnet to some degree, But TBH I would want to measure that to see if it was significant. I will give it a go when I get some more wire, I have a LCR meter so I will measure the inductance of the coil as well, both with and without the nail etc.
     
  15. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    From everything I can see of this all it is is a magnet spinning inside a coil which if its a simple coil assy made the same way common wire is wound on a spool and the magnet has its poles facing 90* to the shaft its just working like any basic two pole air core generator.

    The lack of any workable explanation as to how anything is built is making it impossible to come up with any other solutions. It maybe a inductive coupling effect with the motor like LG is theorizing but without and defining information regarding how everything is actually assembled I can't say.

    For me the overall total lack of basic and proper technical descriptions of anything is my limit. Without a defined schematic and basic coherent descriptions of what is what and how each component is made gives me nothing. Then given the fact you apparently can't describe your own designs at all gives me even less confidence you have actually discovered anything unique at all.
     
  16. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    TC please when you have time replicate it and tell us your opinion
    LG thx for all the help untill now, I prefer to keep my location private, thx also for the materials posted. please find attached a related Dc motor coil I've used.
    If I add ferous material inside the coil (if I let the case of the dc motor attached, I know the voltage will increase, but the atraction of the sphere for the metal case will action like a "magnetic brake " and the fast drawing of the batery will provide " clasic results" ) more poles on the magnet sphere - no need high rpm and maybe a special liquid or a gas between the sphere and the coil will help.
    I prupose to start with the rotative field created by the sphere. - cowboy bob - maybe we can find another solution with more sensitive coils, but for that we have to study the magnetic field created - sphere in the position mentioned...
    If it is posible lets try together to documentate it , to note some observatios,
    If you wish I can provide images with related materials I used.
    I wish a collective work, ok subject started by me is true, but nothing special yet (maybe someone will discover something more interesting when will replicate it ... .
    PS: why do you think I wish to be "special ", "unique", TC I don't want to defend it.
    it is just a different approach regarding the homemade generators nothing special. (the position of the holder between the poles of the magnetic sphere and the position sphere - coil )
    Thx
    st
     

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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  17. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I didnt want your exact location, just country. If your bothered about people knowing where you are base on what your doing........................You are one of them....


    Seriously though stop dancing about, yes its a pretty normal coil. but it does have some interesting bits, nothing 'special' but for learning it has potential. What you have to fight against is having a closed mind.

    I build Rodine starship coils for some of my projects, now why do I do this? Do I do it because the coils are efficient? NO. Normally if I do them I do them because I am making something that I want to look a bit 'out there'! I like building some over unity generators, not because they work (no such thing as a free lunch) but because some of them are a good way of honing your building skills! Some like the magnet bearing motors are just really fun to do. I also like to see how inefficient they are with real numbers.

    But at no point do I ever forget that cant get something out of nothing.
     
  18. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    No one can exactly replicate what you have done, not precisely. They would need gauge of wire and how many turns, they would need to know the inductance and resistance. Same for the motor etc. But we can replicate the same effect, this I did for you. I also gave you some rough numbers above based on your figures, your generator is using roughly 3-4 times more power than it produces. If you watched the video above then you know what power is.
     
  19. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    this is the ideea maybe someone will discover something much more interesting then a" borring and ineficient generator", my country is public on the channel - it is Romania, Yes I will help them to replicate it 99 %, I have already attached a picture with a similar motor of 0wen turntable used int he movie ( 2W -4 w) is easy and simple to make nothing special!

    thx st
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  20. hexreader

    hexreader Member

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  21. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    hex reader can you do this without links ? jim can lock our discussion for providing links from other sites.

    thx st
     
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