programmer choice suggestion for beginners

[Wingmax]

If all you want to do is program other peoples target boards then what you say makes sense. But where is the fun in that ??

.............................................
If you put the right parts in the right place and do a reasonable job of soldering the programer kit should work.

Yes, I agree. But that's not what I meant, and I do like building kits. I meant it's easlier for someone who are new to get started in programing PIC. Once they know their programmer is working and understand the tutorials, they can write their own programs. I just thought it's easlier to learn that way. I never meant to say not to build kits and just program other people's board.
Please don't get me wrong.
And I didn't know the PICKit2 comes as a DIY kit because the one I got was fully assembled with test board and lots of extras like CCS, MPLAB etc. But you can download them from the net anyway. I am very impressed with it. It's really just plug & play. And the tutorials are so easy to learn.

It's just a suggestion.

 

[vdd]

If all you want to do is program other peoples target boards then what you say makes sense. But where is the fun in that ??

For the person who wants to build there own targets there are two problems.

Aeople having trouble assembling programer kits.

Beople having their project stalled by programmers that break and can not be fixed. As in the current thread Olimex ICD2 Broken!

A is only a problem with people who are new to electronics.
If they can not get their programer kit to work, there is a very good chance any uC project they try will be too difficult too. The programmer as a project should come prior to any other uC project.

If you put the right parts in the right place and do a reasonable job of soldering the programer kit should work.

How many times the guy has to repeat what he meant?

It really depends on individual. I treat the programmer as a tool of trade and a learning tool. In my workplace, when considering buying a tool, we always think cost and efficiency of the tool and how soon we can get it. Time is very important. In our example here, the choice is simple.

Building our own tool? Unless meets the criterion above or no other choice.
Fun and satisfaction? Absolutely, more fun and satisfaction designing and building our own project.

Not everyone who buys fully assembled kit is because they can't solder.
People who brought fully assembled programmer may also like designing other project and building other kits.

 

[3v0]

I think at this point I feel both Wingmax and I understand what the other is saying.

How many times the guy has to repeat what he meant?

At times people read things into posts, and miss what is clearly stated. What is read can have more to do with the readers viewpoint or hot buttons then the text of the post.

If you have never suffered a time delay because the only programmer you owned failed, then you may have difficult with my viewpoint. I have gone thought this twice.

You are talking about tools in the workplace. We (at least I) was talking about the hobbyist.

Your post has broadened the discussion to tools in general. We were specifically talking about programmers.

Not everyone who buys fully assembled kit is because they can't solder.
People who brought fully assembled programmer may also like designing other project and building other kits.

True. But the programmers are easy builds and more reliable (or at least more repairable) than commercial units.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

And I didn't know the PICKit2 comes as a DIY kit because the one I got was fully assembled with test board and lots of extras like CCS, MPLAB etc.

The Microchip PICkit2 is not a kit and comes fully assembled. Compatibles like my Junebug are copies based on the schematics published in the back of the PICkit2 manual, I chose through hole and DIP parts as they are designed for easy handling and servicing. I also added a small 18F demo board and a breakout connector as some PICkit2 owners turned them into USB based projects.
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
A hacked PICkit2 used as a SPI protocol analyzer

 

[mvs sarma]

For those who are new in PIC programming, I would suggest to buy a fully assembled PIC programmer to get started. Choose one that also come with fully assembled test board, test programs and tutorials. It'll save you time to assemble it for start. Run the test program and make sure everything works before testing your own program.

If you have to build the programmer and test board, chances are they might not work the first time. There could be bad solder joints, incorrect wiring, incorrect components placement or incorrect polarity etc... When you run your test program it might not work at all, or might not work as you expected. Then you'll running into trouble of finding what could be the problems. The programmer, the test board, your program, or firmware installation.

The fully assembled programmer kits this day are not expensive. So go for it.

Dear Sir,
When an engineer is being molded form an educational instruction, no one expects success from day 1, and for the sake to avoid failures, if we suggest that one should go for purchasing assembles end products, what is difference between a would be engineer and a normal consumer. Perhaps your thoughts are applicable to those who are not interested in hardware and only specialize in software. In such case he/she should write the software and evaluate the way he wants, and makeover to some hardware person for further integration. But, i don't expect such persons in the micro-controller field.
As no one is born skilled, and any one learns and while learning mistakes and failures also matter to moderate one's capabilities.

Forgive me, I hope you will agree that this very philosophy of purchasing thins as available in market is extended to medical & surgery related equipments, we won't be left with manufacturers after another decade. By that time we would have engineers with capability of purchasing but not developing their individual hardware design and manufacturing skills.

The idea of this post is NOT to hurt any person in any manner, but just to indicate the youth , the need for them to try to do something with their hands and and thereby become skilled and eminent persons. This will help them to lead future generations.

 

[Funny NYPD]

Dear Sir,
When an engineer is being molded form an educational instruction, no one expects success from day 1, and for the sake to avoid failures, if we suggest that one should go for purchasing assembles end products, what is difference between a would be engineer and a normal consumer. Perhaps your thoughts are applicable to those who are not interested in hardware and only specialize in software. In such case he/she should write the software and evaluate the way he wants, and makeover to some hardware person for further integration. But, i don't expect such persons in the micro-controller field.
As no one is born skilled, and any one learns and while learning mistakes and failures also matter to moderate one's capabilities.

Forgive me, I hope you will agree that this very philosophy of purchasing thins as available in market is extended to medical & surgery related equipments, we won't be left with manufacturers after another decade. By that time we would have engineers with capability of purchasing but not developing their individual hardware design and manufacturing skills.

The idea of this post is NOT to hurt any person in any manner, but just to indicate the youth , the need for them to try to do something with their hands and and thereby become skilled and eminent persons. This will help them to lead future generations.

That's exactly the philosophy behind some college students and fans who have the open mind to learn almost every single detail on how a well designed tool function correctly by Do it yourself process. Normally you won't gain those knowledge just by purchasing one.

 

[Wingmax]

Dear Sir,
When an engineer is being molded form an educational instruction, no one expects success from day 1, and for the sake to avoid failures, if we suggest that one should go for purchasing assembles end products, what is difference between a would be engineer and a normal consumer. Perhaps your thoughts are applicable to those who are not interested in hardware and only specialize in software. In such case he/she should write the software and evaluate the way he wants, and makeover to some hardware person for further integration. But, i don't expect such persons in the micro-controller field.
As no one is born skilled, and any one learns and while learning mistakes and failures also matter to moderate one's capabilities.

Forgive me, I hope you will agree that this very philosophy of purchasing thins as available in market is extended to medical & surgery related equipments, we won't be left with manufacturers after another decade. By that time we would have engineers with capability of purchasing but not developing their individual hardware design and manufacturing skills.

The idea of this post is NOT to hurt any person in any manner, but just to indicate the youth , the need for them to try to do something with their hands and and thereby become skilled and eminent persons. This will help them to lead future generations.

For God sake, read my posts again. That's not what I meant. How many times do I have to say that. Don't over react.

 

[Wingmax]

That's exactly the philosophy behind some college students and fans who have the open mind to learn almost every single detail on how a well designed tool function correctly by Do it yourself process. Normally you won't gain those knowledge just by purchasing one.

And why did you buy a fully assembled PITKit2?

 

[Wingmax]

The Microchip PICkit2 is not a kit and comes fully assembled. Compatibles like my Junebug are copies based on the schematics published in the back of the PICkit2 manual, I chose through hole and DIP parts as they are designed for easy handling and servicing. I also added a small 18F demo board and a breakout connector as some PICkit2 owners turned them into USB based projects.
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
A hacked PICkit2 used as a SPI protocol analyzer

Hi Bill, another good one from you.
That's the PITKit2 I'm using, and like many other happy customers, connecting to it's port and program my PIC in circuit. This programmer can program many new PIC. Yeah, can't wait.