programmer choice suggestion for beginners

[Wingmax]

For those who are new in PIC programming, I would suggest to buy a fully assembled PIC programmer to get started. Choose one that also come with fully assembled test board, test programs and tutorials. It'll save you time to assemble it for start. Run the test program and make sure everything works before testing your own program.

If you have to build the programmer and test board, chances are they might not work the first time. There could be bad solder joints, incorrect wiring, incorrect components placement or incorrect polarity etc... When you run your test program it might not work at all, or might not work as you expected. Then you'll running into trouble of finding what could be the problems. The programmer, the test board, your program, or firmware installation.

The fully assembled programmer kits this day are not expensive. So go for it.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Kit building is great fun and satisfyingly as you can say "I built this"
As for troubleshooting its not that difficult and with PIC programmer kits like my Inchworm & Junebug these forums have been terrific for getting them up and running. Both designs were made to be simple to build and serviceable with full schematics and even troubleshooting tips. If they break you can fix them as all parts are through hole.
If you're going to work with electronics you're going to have to get used to checking for poor solder joints and using your multimeter.

 

[bananasiong]

Programmer building is fun. If the components listed in the schematic is not available, you may need to consider replacing it with other value. This will make you to have more understanding on the programmer. Besides, you will also get to know the pins that used for programming. I draw my own layout, even the schematic is the same.
Buying a programmer is not really necessary if you think that you programmer is convenience enough for you, but everyone is looking for USB nowadays.

 

[3v0]

I just finished answering a post about a broken purchsed ICD2 clone. It is broken and because the OP did not build it, he is going to have a difficult time fixing it.

Many people have built PIC programmer from kits and some from schematics. We have always been happy to provide help if things get sticky. It is a learning experiance.

Bill's Inchworm and Junebug are execlent easy to build kits.

EDIT: I have
4 home built ICD2's from my own boards
Inchworm
Inchworm+
5 Junebugs

The Junebugs are by far my favorite. We use them in my class every day.

 

[Wingmax]

Please don't get me wrong. I don't mean not to build any project and buy existing one every time. That's not the idea of becoming an engineer. What I meant was for some one who's new in enbeded programming and who wants to get started quick. There are plenty of chances to build more of your own projects once you know and trust your test gear. Also you don't need to build something in order to fix that device if it breaks down. Being a test and service Engineer, how often do we fix something that we didn't build it. And of course, design and build your own project is fun, rewarding and something you can be proud of.

 

[Funny NYPD]

If you got time and the right equipment, it is always worth to give it a try.

 

[3v0]

Please don't get me wrong.... Also you don't need to build something in order to fix that device if it breaks down. Being a test and service Engineer, how often do we fix something that we didn't build it. And of course, design and build your own project is fun, rewarding and something you can be proud of.

Ah but there is the rub. If you buy it without schematics or even with and it is SMD you chances of fixing it are lower then if you have a kit with schematics.

I have a dead Tiny ICD and a no name USB ICD2 and both failed. I could possibly fix them, but it is more work then they are worth.

 

[Wingmax]

If you got time and the right equipment, it is always worth to give it a try.

Totally agree.
What if you are a full time student with lots of other homeworks- physics, Math, Engineering etc, and have a part time job, and you got a project to meet the dead line. Or if you have a full time job and go to night school, and you have a project have to meet the dead line.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The first ICD2 clone I bought off eBay was awful, didn't work and the documentation was a single paragraph on a sheet of paper. China made and surface mount with no schematic so not worth fixing. Inspired me to build the Inchworm kit.

Note: if you want to get into microcontrollers and don't have the time or skill to solder you'll probably going to be disappointed.

 

[vdd]

I was a full time worker and went to night school. Most of the people in my class did have a full time job. I did build a programmer. But I wish I had a fully assembled one. I could have more time concerntrating on my own project. It's not that I don't want to solder.

If I want to fix electronic equipment, I'll buy a good multimeter. If I want to program a PIC, I buy a good programmer.

 

[Funny NYPD]

Sure, goog tools save time.

 

[Wingmax]

Ah but there is the rub. If you buy it without schematics or even with and it is SMD you chances of fixing it are lower then if you have a kit with schematics.

I have a dead Tiny ICD and a no name USB ICD2 and both failed. I could possibly fix them, but it is more work then they are worth.

Unfortunately that's the trend today. The manufacturers don't want you to fix things when they break down, they want you to buy new products.
I have a cheap DVD player which can play more different formats disk than a well known brand. If it breaks down, I won't even thinking about fixing it.

 

[Krumlink]

It depends on the product and the components used. SMD and QTFN are cheaper and easier, so they are going to make them so small and cheap that you would have to buy new ones, in which they make a huge profit (cheap parts expensive final product)

 

[Wingmax]

Sure, goog tools save time.

The PICKit2 you got in "How to program DIP PICs with Breadboard", did you build it? Looks like it's from Microchip, fully assembled.

 

[3v0]

Unfortunately that's the trend today. The manufacturers don't want you to fix things when they break down, they want you to buy new products.
I have a cheap DVD player which can play more different formats disk than a well known brand. If it breaks down, I won't even thinking about fixing it.

Most of the PIC programmers are somewhat simple uC based circuits. They look a lot like the projects we make with uC's. Unlike disposable consumer electronics we can build and repair them.

From the OP

For those who are new in PIC programming, I would suggest to buy a fully assembled PIC programmer to get started.

Along the line of what Bill said earlier. A hobbyist or student who wants to use uC's should know enough about soldering and following instructions to build a programmer from a schematic or a kit. If not, they should work on these skill prior to tackling uC's.

On the other hand a good project for the person who buys a programmer is another programmer. When the purchased unit dies there will be a backup. It may even come in handy when attempting to repair the first one.

 

[Wingmax]

You still got me wrong. I didn't mean not to build any project. In fact I will buy Bill's kit.
Soldering has nothing to do with what I meant. How hard it is to solder?
My main point is to get someone up to speed in programming and finish their project on time rather than spend too much time finding what went wrong with their programmer if the programmer kit is not working (might not necessarily be bad soldering), or wondering whether it's their programmer is the problem or their project.

 

[Wingmax]

In the thread "Which Programmer" by Broz, he was recommanded to use PICKit2 by Microchip.
There is a PICKit2 Debug Express from Microchip. It comes with a fully assembled programmer, a test board with P16F887 and switch etc on board . Fully tested programs and tutorials.... for a very low price. Student can afford it and get right into programming PIC immediately. What's wrong with that?

 

[3v0]

If all you want to do is program other peoples target boards then what you say makes sense. But where is the fun in that ??

For the person who wants to build there own targets there are two problems.

Aeople having trouble assembling programer kits.

Beople having their project stalled by programmers that break and can not be fixed. As in the current thread Olimex ICD2 Broken!

A is only a problem with people who are new to electronics.
If they can not get their programer kit to work, there is a very good chance any uC project they try will be too difficult too. The programmer as a project should come prior to any other uC project.

If you put the right parts in the right place and do a reasonable job of soldering the programer kit should work.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Some people love building kits, I do.
Heathkit made some amazing kits till Zenith bought them and ended that.
It was a huge effort to build an Heathkit H8 computer even though you could buy any other home computer people still built them because they enjoyed it and you also got an excellent understanding of how it worked and could even repair it. It was also possible the unit was better made as few corners could be cut as it had to be assembled by humans.
I still take more pride in something I built myself over something I bought.
I have a genuine PICkit2 and I never use it, I prefer my own Junebug kit. Looks cooler too IMO with those blinky lights and buttons, people are facinated by it when I go to the coffee shop and work.
I did hear a story of a fellow playing with one of my kits at a mall and was questioned by mall security
**broken link removed**
Heathkit H8 computer was available as a kit

 

[Funny NYPD]

The PICKit2 you got in "How to program DIP PICs with Breadboard", did you build it? Looks like it's from Microchip, fully assembled.

Yes, I build it. It is a full function PICKit2. The BB0703 shown in the "How to ..." is a fully assembled unit. A schematic, a PCB picture, PCB-assembly drawing and step by step assembly guide are shown on page Hardware/CB0703 for Do It yourself.

By the way, there is lots of fun to calibrate/trouble-shoot the DIY PICkit 2 unit. With the Do It Yourself process, you got lot of things to learn. Not even mention to understand the schematic from theory to practice.

Thanks for the good job from Microchip, the PICkit2 itself is a very good learning tool for DIY fans and engineering students.