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My first PCB

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Marks256, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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  2. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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    Aaah, umm....

    I just got to the part of the tutorial (http://vulcan.ece.ucsb.edu/ece189/tutorial1board.html) where i am getting into the designing of the PCBs...

    I have the free "Light" version (EAGLE 4.16r1 Lite).

    When i go to move the components around, eagle comes up with an error like as follows:

    [​IMG]


    Please don't tell me that i have to actually PAY money in order to make pcbs... :cry:
     
  3. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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    :eek: I figured it out... I had to put the components ON the board.... :D

    (oh yeah, sorry for the tripple post... I am special, though... :))
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. philba

    philba New Member

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    yeah. it's cryptic at times. the one that confused me at first is if you try to place a component outside the 3x4 area they allow in the free version.
     
  6. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

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    I think I tried it once and it doesnt work.

    However, heres what happens; The H2O2 oxidizes the Copper to Copper Oxide. The HCL and Copper Oxide then Combine to form CuCL (or CuCL2). You have water and a solution of Green (CuCL2) or Blue (CuCL) Copper Chloride.

    BTW you can get Hydrochloric acid at the dollar store...BUT only certain ones sell it, you have to explore a bit. Also, read labels. Its in some Toilet bowel cleaners and drain uncloggers. Ive been wondering if I could use Sodium Hydroxide on the copper, once I have a solution I can boil it to get Copper Oxide (which is useful)

    ADD- Nope that doesnt work. Just releases Some really nasty gas.

    Not to hijack the thread, but Ive seen electroless Tinning. I have some Tin around the shop, I wondering if I could use electrolysis to plate copper with tin. Hell, I could save myself 9 Bucks if I could!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2007
  7. philba

    philba New Member

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    I've gotten HCl + H2O2 to work but, like I said earlier, I don't recommend it.

    when would you plate the tin? after etching? the isolated traces won't get plated. Tinning before is possible but I have no clue as to the chemistry of etching tin.

    I've heard of people using plumbers' solder paste to "tin" the board before stuffing.
     
  8. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    I have a chemical at home, you drop the board in for 5 minutes and it is tinned when you pull it out. I stopped using it, but it works great. I can get the checmical name and address where it came from is someone wants it.
     
  9. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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    I don't want it, but i think it would be a good idea to post it just incase someone is interested (if you have the time...).


    I am going to start designing my programmer on it, and then print the board off at school. Or maybe i could just take one of the printers home.... Seriously... we have a pile of them in the Tech Room... :D I love being a geek... :p
     
  10. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

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    I got my laser printer at a tag sale. The guy wanted to get rid of all this computer stuff, he let it all go (including the printer) for 7 bucks. The printer alone is worth around 60.
     
  11. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    You can get laser printers (nice ones) free. People want color.. So when they run out of toner, offer to take it away. I have three brother 1440s. Two stored and one I use. Call accounting firms and law firms and see if they have old printers they want to get rid of. Marks256, if you get down to Florida one is yours. Shipping would cost more than a new one. Final note. If you do a board, skip the HCL, and do the ferric chloride. I opened the HCL tonight, and transfer to a bottle, sprayed a little on a stain and smoke came up.. Nasty stuff. I can not imagine dropping a board in it. I will try the H2O2 mix before I pitch it (to say I did one). But it was smoking and that tells me I do not want to play with it.
     
  12. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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    Yeah... I have a bottle of ferric chloride (came in the kit).

    I got kinda nervous when you guys started talking about mixing your own chemicals... :D (an electronics forum talking about mixing chemicals... umm, 911? Yeah...)

    I wasn't gonna try it anyways. HCL is very dangerous...
     
  13. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    My first PCB.. If you have not etched it yet. Read on.

    I played with it (HCL) for a bit tonight. Here it is $9 for two 1 gallon bottles. I called a friend I gave the second bottle to and told him to give it to someone with a pool or something but do not open it. It is BAD stuff. Ferric chloride is fine, do it outside with a fan, I do not even wear a mask. But the muriatic acid. You are nut to play with this stuff. This stuff is bad news (I wore goggles and a respirator and still felt a tingle in my throat after I was done). I thought my goggles were dirty but it was smoke that I saw coming off what I poured it on. Who said this stuff is cool and works? :) I will not even use it on shower tiles/toilet bowl let alone a copper board.. I am sure it has a use. Not in Electronics and not for me. The H-peroxide, with 3 kids and 2 dogs (and me) I am sure I will use that up. Or I will dye my hair white. But stick to the norm on etching boards this time. 5 minutes for a board sounds great. I have the extra 10 minutes myself. It would take 10 minutes to get a water hose ready, baking soda out, find a spot in the yard, cost of gloves/goggles/respirator. Get on body armor... Think about what I will do with it when done (waste all that baking soda to kill it). And when done you have to pitch it. I pour the ferric CL back in the plastic bottle and store it. I do not have to worry about it blowing up the bottle. Just my input to your project.

    EDIT: The forum wrapped the text, not me. But please read it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2007
  14. Andy1845c

    Andy1845c Active Member

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    Is ferric chloride really that much tamer then HCI? I've never used ferric chloride, but have used Muriatic for a handful of unconventional uses and still have 2 functioning lungs. Not saying the stuff is safe, but isn't ferric a nasty acid too?
     
  15. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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    I just said that it was dangerous stuff... unless you were just clairifying for the others, then i STRONGLEY agree!
     
  16. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

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    Not to rant and rave, but just because we are talking about chemicals doesnt make us Terrorists or be put on a watch list. I could go and buy Potassium Nitrate, doesnt mean Im going to blow something up. I could be using it for pyrotechnics, or chemistry, or in our case Electronics.

    It all has to do with What you actually do with the Stuff. Although, there are some rules and regs with certain chemicals. Some Gov. Agency is trying to limit sales of those chemicals to People who have rightful use to them.

    Yea, I used to think the same way as you did...Then I did my own research on Government sites and found that its Not Illegal to do such things. Afterall, Wouldnt making biofuel be illegal if that were true? Your only at risk from your own stupidity.

    btw, this isnt a personal attack on you. Just stating something.
     
  17. kchriste

    kchriste New Member Forum Supporter

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    I think that was me.... :D
    I never had anything smoke, but I was carefull not to breathe any fumes and did it outside. All I can say is that it etched my board in 10mins in a ziplock bag and I was pleased with the results.
     
  18. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

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    I didn't mean it that way... I meant that electronics and chemicals are two separate things, and not all people are all multi-talented... It was meant as a joke, not as an "all people who mix chemicals are terrorists"...

    Sorry for the confusion, but just to clarify, that ISN'T what i meant.


    Lol! Where do you get all of these? They are always so funny!
     
  19. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    Save a Canadian Foundaion:

    Try ferric chloride. I will post tomorrow, but I dropped 40% on a stain and smoke came off it. Maybe just me. But I have never had bad luck with ferric chloride. I was wiping my goggles. It was not the goggles. :D
     
  20. kchriste

    kchriste New Member Forum Supporter

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    They come from an old tagline file I used with OLX (DOS based messaging program) back in the days when dialup BBS's were king. OLX would randomly place these at the end of your messages and it was a popular thing to steal/share other peoples taglines. I collected quite a few... :D
    I have... A loooonnnng time ago. It is only recently that I needed to make a PCB. All of my projects have been on veriboard since they are usually one of a kind and looks aren't an issue. I just happened to have the ingredients on hand anyway and needed to make a decent looking PCB, so I thought why not try it?
     
  21. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

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    These a program that comes installed on many linux systems and is a free download called fortune. Haven't looked it up in years but there's a lot of geek jokes in it.
     

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