My first PCB

[Marks256]

Wouldn't you want to lay out the components with a computer though? That looks to me like stickers you stick on the copper board and connect with tape. Sounds annoying to me.

I haven't done a PCB yet, so I don't know any more then you do about it but, do you really need a kit? Can't you just buy the copper board and ferric chloride? Or am I missing somthing?

Yes, i do want to do it with the computer.

just buy a bottle of etchant from the shack and some photo paper from office max and you've got everything you need. I guess if the wife is fussy, you could grab some rubbermade nock-offs from the dollar store for holding the liquids, that way you don't get an ear full about the "good dishes"

I think i will just buy a bottle of etchant. How much is a bottle at the shack? They charge an arm and a leg for everything else...

Oh, and i am a bit young to be married...

 

[justDIY]

it's $4.29 for a quart sized bottle here, actually pretty cheap considering the last gallon jug I bought cost about $25 shipped.

 

[Rolf]

Would this be something to get?

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/s...01&catalogId=10001&pa=70412CM&productId=70412

It is in my price range, and it looks cool...

In one word NO!

You need to check this out: https://www.electro-tech-online.com...ng-solution.23658/?highlight=etching+solution
Then download ExpressPCB or some other PCB layout program.
Get some PCB's on ebay.
You should be in business for less than $25 even if you dont have a laser printer. Just take your PCB printout and have them copied on one of the many papers recomended here or use Press-N-Peel, which I love.

 

[mramos1]

Yes, i do want to do it with the computer.

I think i will just buy a bottle of etchant. How much is a bottle at the shack? They charge an arm and a leg for everything else...

$4 range in the US.. I just bought the last 2 they had at one here on sale at $3.99.. So less than $5 for sure.

 

[Marks256]

Well, i think the last time i was there(day after christmas), there were two bottles left. The next time i get to the shack, i will probably buy some...

Boards in jameco are cheap. Like $3 for a 3"x6"

 

[justDIY]

4x6 for $2 and 6x12 for $5

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/445/PC_Materials.html

3x5 for $1.89

**broken link removed**

 

[Overclocked]

You can also use The Copper Chloride Method or electrolysis.

The Copper Chloride method involves mixing Copper Oxide and Hydrochloric Acid. You can get HCL at the dollar store (Im serious!). As for copper Oxide, you can make it.

Electrolysis involves connecting the anode to the board and the cathode to something else (copper) in a solution of Salt water.

 

[kchriste]

You can make your own etchant by mixing 1 part Muriatic Acid (the kind that's sold in hardware stores) to 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide (the 3% kind that's sold in drugstores and pharmacies).
I used this and it works really well and the neat part is that it is clear so you can see the etching progress easily.

 

[Marks256]

The etching solution is made by adding 1 part Muriatic Acid (the common kind that's sold in hardware stores, about $5.00 gal.) to 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide (the common 3% kind that's sold in dollar stores & drugstores for $0.50 a pint)

https://www.electro-tech-online.com...ng-solution.23658/?highlight=etching+solution

Someone beatcha to it!

 

[mramos1]

Probably important to mention add the acid to the peroxide, not the other way around.

I have lots of etchant, but might try this way and see how it compares. Anyone know how to you store it and what is the shelf life?

 

[Andy1845c]

You can get HCL at the dollar store (Im serious!)

Isn't that amazing! They have Muriatic Acid at my local home improvment warehouse store for $2.49 a gallon! Its on a shelf about 3 feet wide and the top row must be 6 feet off the floor! There must be 50 gallons of the stuff stacked up like its kool-aid. Its also right along where they run forklifts! I've always wondered whos idea that was. I'd hate to get splashed or even be close to there when some kid knocks the shelf over wih a forklift.

Its nasty stuff. Some of you know i'm sure, but if you have never used it, wear your safty gear! You sure as heck don't want an eye full or even a breath of its fumes.

 

[Hayato]

Isn't that amazing! They have Muriatic Acid at my local home improvment warehouse store for $2.49 a gallon! Its on a shelf about 3 feet wide and the top row must be 6 feet off the floor! There must be 50 gallons of the stuff stacked up like its kool-aid. Its also right along where they run forklifts! I've always wondered whos idea that was. I'd hate to get splashed or even be close to there when some kid knocks the shelf over wih a forklift.

Its nasty stuff. Some of you know i'm sure, but if you have never used it, wear your safty gear! You sure as heck don't want an eye full or even a breath of its fumes.

Don't forget that you need to use 30 volumes Hydrogen Peroxide as a catalyzer, otherwise it won't work.

It's a very clean and fast (about 3 ~ 10 minutes) method, but I prefer using the Ferric Chloride because it's safer.

Commercial muriatic acid is a solution of 30%~50% HCl, it is used to clean floors.
If it gets on your skin it'll not burn immediatly (as it is diluted, and your body produces it inside your stomach), it takes a few seconds to burn.

But if it gets in your eyes, it's very dangerous to have a chemical burn or a perfuration.

So when using it, always have a Sodium Bicarbonate solution near, so that you can neutralize the acid.

And remember to do the etching outside the house, because when you etch it will free much more chlorine gas than FeCl3 does.

 

[Hayato]

Probably important to mention add the acid to the peroxide, not the other way around.

I have lots of etchant, but might try this way and see how it compares. Anyone know how to you store it and what is the shelf life?

I have tried and it's nice. But you have to use the 30 volumes Hydrogen Peroxide. You'll find that in drug stores, people use that to bleach the hair (there is 2 kinds the liquid and the gel, you must use the liquid one).

Well, you can store the muriatic acid in its own container or a coke bottle, it lasts very long. (I have some bottles for 2 years and still works).

You cannot store it mixed with the H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide), because H2O2 decomposes itself only by being exposed to light. It is dangerous to the bottle explode (due to O2 gas liberated by H2O2) or the acid become weaker, if you stored that mixed with H2O2.

This etchant is good to reactivate the Ferric Chloride solution too, if you have some weak Ferric Choride etchant, you mix 1/4 ~ 1/3 of the Muriatic Acid + H2O2 etchant, and you'll be able to use that a few more times.

 

[mramos1]

Hayato:

I just picked up the muratic acid (if nothing else wife was some cleaning done) and 4 Dollar store bottles of peroxide.. So the H2O2 must be 30%. Crap hope it is. It is in the garage and I have to run to a soccer game. Will check when back. And it is 1/3 acid poured into 2/3 peroxide right? And do not save it when done?

What is the best way to dispose of it? Take to a reclaim center, or can it be diluted to almost water?

I just want to see how fast it is.

 

[Andy1845c]

If it gets on your skin it'll not burn immediatly (as it is diluted, and your body produces it inside your stomach), it takes a few seconds to burn.

True, but if you have any cuts or scratches, you'll feel it burn like crazy! Don't be stupid like me, wear gloves

Hayato:

What is the best way to dispose of it? Take to a reclaim center, or can it be diluted to almost water?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but is either one toxic? I would think it can just be diluted or neutralized.

 

[mramos1]

I checked the bottles before I left. It is 3%, so I have plenty 3%H2O2 for something else I guess. If the 30% is in cosmetics at the drug store, it will cost more than the Radio Shack stuff I would think.. Will stop on the way home.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I checked the bottles before I left. It is 3%, so I have plenty 3%H2O2 for something else I guess.

Nice hair job perhaps?

 

[Marks256]

Couldn't you just drop a few antacid tabs in the mixture to dilute it?

 

[Rolf]

Hayato:

I just picked up the muratic acid (if nothing else wife was some cleaning done) and 4 Dollar store bottles of peroxide.. So the H2O2 must be 30%. Crap hope it is. It is in the garage and I have to run to a soccer game. Will check when back. And it is 1/3 acid poured into 2/3 peroxide right? And do not save it when done?

What is the best way to dispose of it? Take to a reclaim center, or can it be diluted to almost water?

I just want to see how fast it is.

I only mix what I need. Have found out that 1/2 cup will etch 10sq". Plastic measuring cups are handy for accurate measuring. The rest I neutralize with baking soda and dump.
The speed is dependent on many factors, temperature and the amount of agitation are probably the most important. By only making enough for the job you sacrifice some speed because you want the solution to be almost spent by the time you are finished.

 

[Hayato]

Hayato:

I just picked up the muratic acid (if nothing else wife was some cleaning done) and 4 Dollar store bottles of peroxide.. So the H2O2 must be 30%. Crap hope it is. It is in the garage and I have to run to a soccer game. Will check when back. And it is 1/3 acid poured into 2/3 peroxide right? And do not save it when done?

What is the best way to dispose of it? Take to a reclaim center, or can it be diluted to almost water?

I just want to see how fast it is.

It's very fast, I'd say it takes about 35% of the Ferric Chloridre time. But as Rolf said, the ambient temperature is a decisive factor.

I use less, I pour about 1/4 of peroxide into 3/4 of acid.

You can store it, but it's "power" will decrease due the H2O2 decomposition, if you store in a coke bottle, make sure to "squeese" it a little (to remove some air) before you close it.
So the best thing is just to prepare what you are going to use that moment.

After etching the solution will be some sort of "greenish-blue" due the Cooper Chloride.

Best way to dispose it is neutralizing with baking soda or sodium bicarbonate, after neutralizing you can dispose the same way you dispose ferric chloride.

The greatest problem in those electronics etchants (both FeCl3/ Muriatic Acid solution) is that you have cooper chloride after etching, which is not healthy to humans/nature, but its quantity is very small.

Make sure to etch outside and away from metallic parts, the chlorine gas will oxide metals.

True, but if you have any cuts or scratches, you'll feel it burn like crazy! Don't be stupid like me, wear gloves

Correct me if i'm wrong, but is either one toxic? I would think it can just be diluted or neutralized.

Yes, HCl decomposes the blood instantly. You know, it makes me remember a scene in the university.
The guy was supposed to transfer sulphuric acid from one canister to another, he was given instructions, a glass tube and a vacuum pump to transfer the acid.
Well, he just did not used the vacuum pump (I don't know why), try to guess what he used to make the vacuum... His mouth.
After the acid entered in contact with his mouth it was a horrible thing, his buccal mucosa just smelted and all his teeth fell, there where plenity of blood... He didn't die but...

Hydrogen Peroxid is not that toxic (only if you drink it), it will decompose into H2O + O2.

HCl is toxic and should be neutralized with sodium bicarbonate, so that is forms a non toxic solution (Sodium Bicarbonate + NaCl + H2O).