Mechanical rotary encoder suggestions needed.

[Les Jones]

That looks like it will do the job but you have said you do not use a microcontroller and that is what converts the quadrature signals to up and down pulses. The microcontroller does the same job as the circuit that Tony and myself have already suggested. The encoder switch on the board is what has been suggested in many of the replies. The printed circuit board that you have made for your original design looks very well made so you should have no trouble building the circuit.

I found that you can buy the kit here. https://diy4fun.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/rotary-encoder-for-ats-transceiver.html

Les.

 

[Imagewerx]

That looks like it will do the job but you have said you do not use a microcontroller and that is what converts the quadrature signals to up and down pulses. The microcontroller does the same job as the circuit that Tony and myself have already suggested. The encoder switch on the board is what has been suggested in many of the replies. The printed circuit board that you have made for your original design looks very well made so you should have no trouble building the circuit.

I found that you can buy the kit here. https://diy4fun.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/rotary-encoder-for-ats-transceiver.html

Les.

Ok and thanks for that.Yes I am more than capable of making PCBs that work with even the smallest of SMDs,but this is more a case of wanting the simpler solution rather than needing it.If there is definitely not a purely electro-mechanical solution to this,then it'll have to be something like the above.I just need to make sure the pulse length is long enough for what I need,the problem is I don't know what it actually does need but that 1 ms just isn't long enough.

 

[nsaspook]

The close

So there should be plenty of them in the surplus shops,what ever they're called?

You can still find Mechanical Encoders but they all have coded outputs but low resolution so the pulses should be long.
https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/ES-64228.pdf
https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Encoders/_/N-39xfc?P=1yzrkqe

 

[Imagewerx]

I mean ones that aren't current like these....



....I seem to remember that these and other tuning knobs had detents,but didn't have end stops? This has to be purely mechanical if it's from the 1970s as I'd guess this is?

 

[nsaspook]

I mean ones that aren't current like these....
...
....I seem to remember that these and other tuning knobs had detents,but didn't have end stops? This has to be purely mechanical if it's from the 1970s as I'd guess this is?

It's hard to say what they used, it might look like this inside. (One of the mechanical monster receivers I once worked on in the 70's that even then used encoder codes for knobs)
**broken link removed**

 

[Imagewerx]

It's hard to say what they used, it might look like this inside. (One of the mechanical monster receivers I once worked on in the 70's that even then used encoder codes for knobs)
**broken link removed**

I just love radios like that,it's a work of art and doesn't deserve to be shut away inside a metal box like that.

Anyway I had a eureka moment,it's a pulse switch I need.....

http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Switch/Rotary/SRBM/SRBM1L1400.html

 

[nsaspook]

I just love radios like that,it's a work of art and doesn't deserve to be shut away inside a metal box like that.

Anyway I had a eureka moment,it's a pulse switch I need.....

https://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Switch/Rotary/SRBM/SRBM1L1400.html

Bookmarked and logged for my work parts bin. Thanks for finding it.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ALPS/SRBM1L1400/?qs=nco/1JLdfbfteZ%2bCO8BTkw==

 

[Imagewerx]

Bookmarked and logged for my work parts bin. Thanks for finding it.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ALPS/SRBM1L1400/?qs=nco/1JLdfbfteZ%2bCO8BTkw==

I can't believe how long it's taken me to find this.I spent long evenings reading Google searches on every thing I could find about switches until my head was spinning.There are some amazingly clever people on these forums who know the answer to life,the universe and everything without even having to think about it.I asked this question here and on a number of other electronics forums a year or so ago when I originally started this project without any luck,so it surprises me that of all the hundreds of times my questions on this subject were read,no one knew an answer as simple as this,or just couldn't be bothered to answer.

Anyway,thanks to those people who did take the time to answer and help solve my little dilemma.Off to Mouser now to order 3 of them to play with.

 

[BobW]

Deleted.
Missed the post about the ALPS switch.

 

[Imagewerx]

Looks like I might have got excited a bit too soon.Can someone look at this for me please and tell me if this switch turns continuously (which I need) or does it have end-stops?

https://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Switch/Rotary/SRBM/SRBM1L1400.html

 

[alec_t]

No obvious reference to end stops, but the linked datasheet does have a button for submitting Enquiries if you're unsure.

 

[Imagewerx]

No obvious reference to end stops, but the linked datasheet does have a button for submitting Enquiries if you're unsure.

I asked this because it shows a view with the shaft fully counter-clockwise,for it to have this position I'd have thought it would have to have end stops? But it says it has 20 detents that are spaced 18 deg apart,meaning a total of 360 deg of rotation which it can't have if it's got an end stop?

 

[Diver300]

It can't have an end stop.

Any application for such a switch has to have some datum point, and none is provided by the switch. It is designed for car AV equipment, and a car cannot leave power on a switch all the time or the battery would go flat.

If a car stereo had been turned up a bit loud, and then the car shut down, and then someone turned the volume to the counterclockwise stop, the stereo couldn't have noticed that the knob was turned. Then when the car it turned on, the user would have no way of turning the volume down, without turning it up all the way, which could be very loud, to set the top end of the volume range.

That simply doesn't happen. There is no stop. If the knob is turned with the car off, nothing happens, and the lack of at stop means that the user can always turn the volume down. The ends are provided by the zero to max range of the electronics.

 

[Imagewerx]

It can't have an end stop.

Any application for such a switch has to have some datum point, and none is provided by the switch. It is designed for car AV equipment, and a car cannot leave power on a switch all the time or the battery would go flat.

If a car stereo had been turned up a bit loud, and then the car shut down, and then someone turned the volume to the counterclockwise stop, the stereo couldn't have noticed that the knob was turned. Then when the car it turned on, the user would have no way of turning the volume down, without turning it up all the way, which could be very loud, to set the top end of the volume range.

That simply doesn't happen. There is no stop. If the knob is turned with the car off, nothing happens, and the lack of at stop means that the user can always turn the volume down. The ends are provided by the zero to max range of the electronics.

Apart from old school (1990s) head units which had old fashioned stereo pots as volume controls.Also some modern Alpines have 'soft start' which automatically turns the volume down to zero every time you switch on and slowly turns it up to where it was before.But,you say it can't leave power on the switch,otherwise you'd get a flat battery.They do of course have a permanent live as memory back up (small current draw,about 20 milliamps) to remember all the settings such as volume,track and radio presets,but even though permanent it powers down the part of it that lets it accept switch inputs when turned off.

Oh and thanks for your input on the end stop puzzle,much appreciated.

 

[Diver300]

They do of course have a permanent live as memory back up (small current draw,about 20 milliamps) to remember all the settings such as volume,track and radio presets

Actually some don't have permanent power now, and if they do, the current draw would be less.
Station and volume presets can be stored on EEPROM, while time of day is often sent over the data bus, so the radio doesn't need a clock.

Also 20 mA would be a target for the whole car, not just one item.

 

[Imagewerx]

If anyone's interested,I just got the switches this morning and they do rotate continuously,no end stops.