Magnetic Fields - Permanent Magnet Generator

[Nigel Goodwin]

This has not been designed 100 Years ago.

I suspect he didn't understand what you're hoping to do, and was talking about dynamo's which do work, and are very old.

However, your proposed scheme is similar to many other non-working perpetual motion machines, and may well have been proposed over 100 years ago as well.

 

[cobra1]

perpetual motion machines date back as far as 1150ad. and consisted of an overbalanced wheel of which the inventor said could run forever.
also it is now a policy of all patent offices to refuse any patent put forward for a perpetual motion machine.

this is due to the fact that they violate "conservation of energy" laws and also the "second law of thermodynamics".

i would really love to see one of these machines come to life, but unfortunatly they wont. if they do then you will be a very busy guy as you will have to rewrite a lot of science text books.

as i have pointed out before, this wheel would need to have a frictionless bearing (i.e magnet bearing) a perfectly balanced wheel and put inside a vacuum to eliminate resistance.

so assuming you do all that, how do you expect it to do work????

 

[smanches]

I'm just saying don't reinvent the wheel, or the generator. If there was any way to make money behind it, it's already been invented. Unless you have some new unknown materials that others don't, you are just reinventing something that is already been proven or not.

If you want to make a permanent magnet generator, look at existing permanent magnet generators. There are no secrets that the experts are "missing" that is going to make yours any better at this point.

 

[cobra1]

the problem here is that any motor i know of has a power input, this one here is using a magnet as its input power, which is actually designed to move. anything that moves uses energy, so we have a little magnet bouncing back and forth, a big wheel spinning, air resistance, friction from the bearing, vibration from the unbalanced wheel, all this will create noise and heat, using more energy.

oh and lets not forget the huge amount of energy needed to make the magnets in the first place.

 

[Vizier87]

Ah... tough youth talking naivete. .. PPMs have been discussed in thermodynamics terms to be proven that they can never be realized.
So was the idea of having computers in each homes. I have one design on a PPM, I'm going to try out myself so that I'll be convinced whether it is a myth or not.
Like tmtech said, he stopped caring what people think. I think I still wanna do it amid all the old-timers' declaration.

 

[tcmtech]

Over unity is a false belief and will never ever ever work I can promise that! But using the naturally occurring energy around us to do work is however obviously possible and countless forms of that free naturally occurring energy can be captured and are used every day.

I have always found it odd that the self proclaimed experts seem to think that free energy is impossible. All of the energy that nature tosses around us every day is free to capture and use. The devices that capture that energy are not! Wind power is free but the wind generator that turns it into electricity cost time, materials, and money. Same with solar thermal and solar electric. That heat and light cost us nothing but the devices that convert it into an energy form we can use do cost something.

We spend billions of dollars a year on air conditioning to pump out that unwanted heat energy that nature keeps sending in through the windows and doors for free.

Most of the supposed over unity device problems come down to quantifying what naturally occurring source of energy is being harnessed to do work. Once the energy source is quantified its no longer over unity. Just cleaver energy harvesting and conversion.

A simple example is this.
Is my house suffering from an obvious over unity issue because it heats up during the day even though I am not putting any energy I pay for into heating it? Or is the sun shining in the windows?
I dont always want it, I never built anything to purposely harvest and store it, but its there for no efforts or costs to me.

Argue it all you want but I will always define that as a measurable and usable 'free energy' source and no laws of physics or thermal dynamics have been broken!

 

[mneary]

Well put, tcm. The energy is free, but the packaging and handling is what gets you.

Like the 99 cent items on ebay with the $13.95 "shipping".

 

[Mr RB]

I think "over unity" is defined by perception more than physics. Imagine 150 years ago when scientists only had rudimentary electrical knowlege if you turned up with a solar cell. It would be "over unity"...

"Observe! It just sits there and electricity is produced!"

If you made a device today that harnessed energy from gravity or subatomic particles etc, anything not easily perceived, then it would be "over unity". Then in 50 years when that mechanism is fully understood it stops being "over unity" and becomes plain old commonly known physics like the solar cell.

So on that basis I would say over unity DOES exist, within the constraints of perception and understanding.

And NO the magnet wheel thingy won't work. ;D

 

[smanches]

There is no free energy. There is only energy you can tap which has little impact in the near future.

Windmills and tidal generators both get their energy from the orbit of the moon. The more we use, the further the orbit is increased.

So conserve energy and save the moon!

 

[tcmtech]

Windmills and tidal generators both get their energy from the orbit of the moon. The more we use, the further the orbit is increased.

So conserve energy and save the moon!

seriously? Your joking right?

If not do you have some even half way creditable references to back that one up? Especially the wind part.
I would love to hear more about how this works!

 

[smanches]

I am not kidding what-so-ever. Let me find the details...

From Wikipedia...

"Tidal movement causes a continual loss of mechanical energy in the Earth–Moon system due to pumping of water through the natural restrictions around coastlines, and due to viscous dissipation at the seabed and in turbulence. This loss of energy has caused the rotation of the Earth to slow in the 4.5 billion years since formation. During the last 620 million years the period of rotation has increased from 21.9 hours to the 24 hours[4] we see now; in this period the Earth has lost 17% of its rotational energy. While tidal power may take additional energy from the system, increasing the rate of slowdown, the effect would be noticeable over millions of years only, thus being negligible."

Basically any resistance to the rotation of the earth (this is where windmills come in) will extract energy from the earth-moon relationship.

 

[Sceadwian]

Tidal generators are moon sure, Wind is the sun though.

 

[tcmtech]

Ah wikipedia, the everyones uneducated guess encyclopedia! That explains so very much now.

Wind is solar thermal and restricted to the atmosphere and as far as I know theres about 250K miles of vacuum between the upper atmosphere and the moon. So that pretty much means the moon forces are out on that one.

In theory tidal generators are drawing power out of the tides but in comparison to the energy levels natures tossing around they dont even make it on to the charts in comparison to what nature is putting forth for drag just from the land and water interactions themselves.

Besides it took how many hundred million years for the rate to add a few hours to a day?

Human scale energy numbers are so microscopically small in comparison to what the forces of nature are working on just on this planet its too far beyond anyones realistic comprehension to even begin to rationalize!

 

[Mr RB]

...
Human scale energy numbers are so microscopically small in comparison to what the forces of nature are working on just on this planet its too far beyond anyones realistic comprehension to even begin to rationalize!

I agree completely. Just like human-caused global warming is microscopically small compared to the typical chaotic heat/cool cycles this planet goes through anyway.

It's human nature to think everything happens because of them, and possibly the dumber they are the more likely they are to buy into the whole "man causes global warming" bunkum.

 

[tcmtech]

I agree completely. Just like human-caused global warming is microscopically small compared to the typical chaotic heat/cool cycles this planet goes through anyway.

It's human nature to think everything happens because of them, and possibly the dumber they are the more likely they are to buy into the whole "man causes global warming" bunkum.

I had an environmental geology class a number of years ago that was very educational and well worth the time and money I spent on it.

My professors used a number of physical weather references to compare how small we are in the worlds energy system that it was humbling to say the least!

The easiest example they used to relate to was that one average sized hurricane dissipates more energy in its 6 - 10 day life cycle than what all of human kind had produced in the last one hundred years.

Now factor in how many dozen hurricanes and large tropical storms happen in an average year plus add in all of the normal storms and typical world wide weather events on top of that!
Our world wide energy consumption for the last century is equal to around 35 minutes worth of one days typical global weather!
Add in oceanic and tidal movements, river flows, and solar thermal energy and our last century's efforts get knocked out in a few seconds!

Our wasteful efforts dont really stand out as much as we think they do on this planet. We really need to try harder. Much Much harder!

 

[Dealo]

i say good on you for having a go. I love it when people say it "cant" be done. Remember that everyone thought the world was flat at one stage.