Information Overkill.?

[ericgibbs]

hi,
It would be interesting to know what other members feel about the increasing tendency of some helpers in 'the force feeding' of OP's when posting technical/background information which the OP has not requested or want and most likely does not understand.

In some cases the helpers are sequentially posting more information based on their own previous posts.?
Heated discussions then usually arise between members, who argue over details of each others answers, totally ignoring the OP's original request.

IMHO this just clutters up the OP's thread and makes it difficult to give the OP a clear answer or others to follow.

Eric

 

[spec]

Force feeding is not possible on ETO; that it is used for dramatic effect.

I think the trend is the other way around. ETO is far more informative and constructive and direct than it used to be, and there is far less superfluous information, bickering, gratuitous contradictions, and trolling. This has also been noticed by some non-members that I know who read ETO and other sites.

It is also the reason why many new members come to ETO after receiving a mauling/unhelpful responses on certain other sites.

But even so, I still get many PMs from members asking for technical help because they do not want to be exposed to any hassle on open forum.

The point about information, as opposed to waffle, is that it can either be used or not by the OP. Provided the information is structured and clear the OP can simply go to the level that suits him.

My worry is the times where information is not correct and is based on false assumptions or some bias or another and the use of technical terms/abbreviations which are incomprehensible, even to those experienced in electronics.

spec

 

[atferrari]

Hola Eric,

Not a helper myself, I tend to feel there is not much in excess but eventually some digressions, which the OP could have some dificulty to wade through what in turn is what you get in real life, clutter and noise, exactly as in the old radar's PPI.

 

[Ian Rogers]

I think this is because of the massive lul here on ETO... When someone posts, there are too many getting involved because of the lack of posters... Too many helpers, not enough helpee's...

Maybe because of the reasons you brought up!!

 

[JimB]

I think this is because of the massive lul here on ETO...

How many times, and in how many different ways, can you ask the question "What resistor do I need for my LED?"

JimB

 

[ronsimpson]

There are projects proposed that sound fun and 10 of us want to build it. The original poster does not come back so we carry on. That does not help person #1 but the rest of us have fun and we get to brag about how much we know. Those that "know almost everything" get to learn something new.

 

[throbscottle]

Sometimes I think people respond without reading the OP (or they read what they expected to see not what was actually written). It's really quite annoying...

 

[tcmtech]

How many times, and in how many different ways, can you ask the question "What resistor do I need for my LED?"

I have an LED I want to make brighter but I won't divulge any relevant information about anything and I want to use a arduino and will not even bother reply to any answers that involve basic common sense approaches because I think everything can be solved with software if I throw enough of code it.

Please help, it's part of a world revolutionizing idea I have and plan to implement by next Tuesday even though I can't read or understand electronics to save my life.

 

[tcmtech]

But even so, I still get many PMs from members asking for technical help because they do not want to be exposed to any hassle on open forum.

How many do you get that are bonafide legitimate questions and how many are bonehead goofy stuff from zero post members that just make you wonder what they are smoking?

Just curious being I seem to get far more bonehead goofy stuff from zero post wonders than real legitimate questions.

 

[tcmtech]

Force feeding is not possible on ETO; that it is used for dramatic effect.

I think the trend is the other way around. ETO is far more informative and constructive and direct than it used to be, and there is far less superfluous information, bickering, gratuitous contradictions, and trolling. This has also been noticed by some non-members that I know who read ETO and other sites.

It is also the reason why many new members come to ETO after receiving a mauling/unhelpful responses on certain other sites.

I've noticed similar things as well.

Seems that in the last few months a lot of forum sites are having shifts in how their members/site ownership act and participate towards each other and rarely for the better now at that.

Finding sites where basic to the point constructive help is accepted, let alone standard, is getting harder to find.
I'm down to 3 three now from 7 - 8 I participated in regularly a year or so ago.

Infact I have one more I apparently just got kicked out today of for who knows what (well I'm not a head up my ass liberal and stand my ground against 'stupid is as stupid does misconceptions and beliefs' so that's probably why).

My my last check in was earlier this morning and my last post there was 4 - 5 days ago where I pointed out the cold hard scientific and technical reality (I blatantly did not agree with common liberal views of certain members and apparently site mangement) of how life actually works to some fool but now I have been kicked out.

 

[spec]

How many do you get that are bonafide legitimate questions and how many are bonehead goofy stuff from zero post members that just make you wonder what they are smoking?

Just curious being I seem to get far more bonehead goofy stuff from zero post wonders than real legitimate questions.

Hi TCM,

Since October 2015, when I became an ETO member all of the PMs asking for technical help have been genuine and meaningful. Often they ask questions that they consider to trivial/basic to put on the open forum and even though I encourage then to post they don't feel confident to post.

It is a shame because many of the topics would be of interest to other members. One person in particular is hilarious and has many stories that you would like.

Other emails are just general chat about common experiences or how to use ETO- posting images and the like.

spec

 

[spec]

I've noticed similar things as well.

Seems that in the last few months a lot of forum sites are having shifts in how their members/site ownership act and participate towards each other and rarely for the better now at that.

Finding sites where basic to the point constructive help is accepted, let alone standard, is getting harder to find.
I'm down to 3 three now from 7 - 8 I participated in regularly a year or so ago.

Infact I have one more I apparently just got kicked out today of for who knows what (well I'm not a head up my ass liberal and stand my ground against 'stupid is as stupid does misconceptions and beliefs' so that's probably why).

My my last check in was earlier this morning and my last post there was 4 - 5 days ago where I pointed out the cold hard scientific and technical reality (I blatantly did not agree with common liberal views of certain members and apparently site mangement) of how life actually works to some fool but now I have been kicked out.

ETO has now got a reputation for a site to go to for a balanced, polite and informative reponse.

But some sites are unbelievable. I joined another forum a couple of months ago and you know the style of my posts- circuit plus description and supporting data. You should have seen the trolling I got- that circuit is not the way to do it. You need to do this that and the other- all unsubstantiated. I won't carry on about it but there was a long tirade from the resident 'experts'.

I don't know what is going on with OPs on ETO at the moment, as you say there seems to be a batch of, I want this I want that and, as you say, they provide no information to give you an idea of their equipment so at least you have a chance of answering their questions: My TV is not working- how do I fix it? etc.

And then there are the cases where you spend hours researching and designing a circuit only to find that they just used components from their spares box but the circuit did not work. Or, it is just an experimental circuit so I left the decoupling capacitors out- they are not important anyway.

The best way is to just duck out when you can't get any sense from a post. The trouble is then they PM you.

But I am not complaining- to me it is all good fun and, like I said before, there is not a single post where I haven't learnt something new about electronics... and about people too.

Keep taking the tablets.

spec

 

[spec]

I have an LED I want to make brighter but I won't divulge any relevant information about anything and I want to use a arduino and will not even bother reply to any answers that involve basic common sense approaches because I think everything can be solved with software if I throw enough of code it.

Please help, it's part of a world revolutionizing idea I have and plan to implement by next Tuesday even though I can't read or understand electronics to save my life.

my favorite type of post.

On a serious note, I have wondered for a long time if it wouldn't be useful to have a sticky guide for new OPs. It need not be mandatory but I think it would possibly help.

spec

 

[cowboybob]

There has been a level of civility on ETO for some time now that reflects well on the members as well as the OPs.

Didn't used to be that way, but the mods, owners and the actively engaged members are to be congratulated for bringing about the change.

As for any one OP's inability to articulate they're problems/ideas, don't forget that they consider us to be the experts. It's our job to suss out the wheat from the chaff. If, in the end, they don't play nice or just ignore our august and myriad experience/advice, we always have the option of simply not posting... .

 

[Mikebits]

But some sites are unbelievable. I joined another forum a couple of months ago and you know the style of my posts- circuit plus description and supporting data. You should have seen the trolling I got- that circuit is not the way to do it. You need to do this that and the other- all unsubstantiated. I won't carry on about it but there was a long tirade from the resident 'experts'.

Let me guess. Does the first letter start with an E and end with a G?

 

[ronsimpson]

One forum I am on; When you post 20% of the posts in a thread they "wack you off". (you are limited to 20%) It is not as fun as I thought it would be. Maybe I misunderstood what would happen when I reached 20%.

I personally think it is OK to post 4/14 times, or 3 time in a row. (not naming names) Some people have good information. Some people have great volumes of information. Is there really such a thing as "Information Overkill".

 

[JoeJester]

Often they ask questions that they consider to trivial/basic to put on the open forum and even though I encourage then to post they don't feel confident to post.

I agree that could be a reason, but, every time you accept a too trivial question, it only encourages more to sidestep the homework forum or other forums.

Your answering means your name is passed along to others as one who will circumvent the rules of the forum, no matter how trivial the rules are.

There is nothing stopping you from initiating contact to some poster for private consultation. That is your business. The same applies to those who were the topic of this thread.

The only trivial question is the one NOT ASKED.

I still contend an answer could be giving them a reference to read. If they choose not to read a valid reference, do they really deserve more of your time? If they read the reference and have questions about the reference, they that is a valid additional inquiry in the thread.

I will continue to ask about the source of the questions and ask for a picture of the question they received.

I will continue to ask about circuit sources as well.

There was on TS who asked about the operation of a circuit. When they told me the source, I went to it and found out the theory of operation was explained on the page.

 

[spec]

Let me guess. Does the first letter start with an E and end with a G?

A & C Mike

spec

 

[spec]

I agree that could be a reason, but, every time you accept a too trivial question, it only encourages more to sidestep the homework forum or other forums.

Your answering means your name is passed along to others as one who will circumvent the rules of the forum, no matter how trivial the rules are.

There is nothing stopping you from initiating contact to some poster for private consultation. That is your business. The same applies to those who were the topic of this thread.

The only trivial question is the one NOT ASKED.

I still contend an answer could be giving them a reference to read. If they choose not to read a valid reference, do they really deserve more of your time? If they read the reference and have questions about the reference, they that is a valid additional inquiry in the thread.

I will continue to ask about the source of the questions and ask for a picture of the question they received.

I will continue to ask about circuit sources as well.

There was on TS who asked about the operation of a circuit. When they told me the source, I went to it and found out the theory of operation was explained on the page.

Non of the the people who PM are doing home work.

And, along with the technical stuff, we also discuss other matters. I particularly like learning about other people's life styles and society, especially countries not westernized yet - some of the things we take for granted they have not even heard of. Also non native English speakers have a fascinating and original word usage.

In one case the correspondent could not believe the wide range of foods available: Italian, Chinese, Mexican, Indian...

Yes, you think the same way as me- there is no such thing as a question too trivial.

An event that occurred at school when I was about 14 sticks in my mind. I kept hearing this term soft iron in connection with magnetism and nowhere could I get a definition of what soft iron was exactly or even why it was good for electromagnets. So one day I asked the metalwork teacher and his answer was 'Don't be so stupid' and that was it. I couldn't ask the science teacher because he did not understand science, besides which he was rarely at school. His predecessor was an excellent science teacher though.

And you still get the catch all bromides, like 'Ask no questions and get told no lies'

I was having a bit of trouble with an airborne radar unit in the servicing bay and could not work out what the power supply line should be. So I asked the corporal technician in charge of the section, his answer surprised me: 'You don't need to know technical stuff like that in the RAF. The only use for technical stuff is getting a job in civvy street when you get demobbed'.

Then the wonderful piece of advice from the radio engineering officer- a red hot technical man, after a long pause and much thought he proclaimed, in a most considered manner, 'Well, if the scan converter is not working, there must be a fault with it'.

All through my education, even now, the teaching/advice has been abysmal and downright misleading, when just a few word here and there would have put me right; How does a transistor work: you shove some current into the base/emitter leads and around a hundred times more current flows from the collector to the emitter- amen.

Mind you, the internet is an absolute boom, although there is also a load of arcane/incorrect information on the net.

The other thing is that some people, including me, can only understand things that are explained from the basics up.

spec

 

[spec]

Is there really such a thing as "Information Overkill".

I am with you 100% there Ron. Information can be simply ignored if it is not wanted. The problem is bad information and bad manners which both mislead and trouble OPs, especially the young/inexperienced. Often the problem with some OPs is that they struggle with English, especially in technical terms and some simply have a very poor internet service.

Quite honestly, how many of the OPs post at all is amazing; I couldn't do it under their circumstances.

spec