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help Feedback winding for resonance with pll 4046

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by sebosfato, May 14, 2009.

  1. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    Do you use electric shower or maybe natural gas? How much do you spent to have hot water? I'm thinking about to put 10 130W modules on 1 m2 black metal sheet and make the test. It will cost me 1000 euros and if it works i'm going to have maybe 800W/h of electricity and hot water on the end of the day. :) maybe wont work, as soon as i have the money i'm going to give this a try.
     
  2. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

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    And what does that have to do with over unity? Heat storage is cool and all, and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything else said in this thread so far.
     
  3. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    You are right Sceadwian we lost the point. I created this thread to figure out the details of the circuits on the first post. Later i'm going to print them and write the parts that are already figured and scan it again for being more objective. If you know what kind of opamp is used on the resonant scanning circuit and possible values for resistors this part is ready. The other important part is the op amp for the feedback and the resistors values. See you later.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    You might have noticed that you posted in your own thread many times without a single reply?, this was probably because no one could understand the bizzare circuits and questions you were asking.

    If these things worked they would post the circuits fully working with proven examples, but because they don't work they post crazy circuits that won't work anyway, and don't give the component values.

    No one has yet shown any such design to ever work, no conspiracies, they just don't work - but to cover that fact they claim a mysterious 'government' is squashing all the results.
     
  6. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    I'm sorry Nigel but is a question of time that circuits from Stanley meyer that i posted work even i that don't have the all background in electronics understood how it works i'm just trying to find out the best components for the application.

    So i'm going to repeat more clearly how it should work and in few hours i'm going to put the circuits again with components i already discovered.

    First of all The 4046 pll generates a frequency witch depends on the R1 and R2 C1 and will lock within the lock range you chose and filter design values. The resonant scanning circuit is a saw tooth wave form generator a 555 timer and the op amp i don't know because i never used them and so i don't know which could be ok for this, the logic not gates and jfets block the frequency when it reach the resonance frequency because it receive the signal of the lock circuit 4001 nor witch is connected to pin 1 and 2 from 4046 pll. this is the basic than there is another pulse width modulator circuit that is going to gate the signal with a frequency lower than the first one just to control the on off time simple as that. I just don't know the op amps and resistor values. I going make the drawing of the all circuit connected together maybe this way is easier to understand.

    The other circuit is What i call the infinite circuit that i'm going to try what i predicted with theory. Not sure.

    The transformer i posted works just the way i said and like also Stanley Meyer said, it multiplies the voltage by more than 100 with the configuration i posted It works like this because of the diode and the charging chokes. What i want is to drive it on the resonant frequency. And thats why i want to figure out that circuit from meyer, because is able for sure to do what it is supposed to do.

    thanks
     
  7. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    If you believe that then feel free, but neither Stanley Meyer (who was a convicted fraudster) or anyone else has ever managed to make his ludicrous schemes work.
     
  8. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    This is the all thing in one diagram. It have a range of 10 to 12khz. Actually the 4046 makes 10 to 100hz signal that is multiplied by the counter i guess not sure.

    If you know how to come out with some values for resistors and capacitors and opamps is finished. I have to create a ramp or triangle signal that goes from vss to vcc to search the resonant frequency. We need to discover the values of R3, Cf and R4 for the filter section. Its using the 2° Phase comparator.

    I think maybe the diodes on the feed back could be zeners but i'm not sure. Its possible to use a feed back like this to create 50% square waves? Or was that workings as a sine wave feed back?
     

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  9. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    If they were zeners presumably they would be drawn as such?, but if you mean the two back to back diodes, you couldn't do that with zeners anyway (well you could, but there would be no point whatsoever).
     
  10. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    i meant that back to back, you are right there is no point also on the schematics is not indicated as zener i was just guessing what effect it would have. I was thinking about trying a Tl074 because a friend suggested me to use current feedback on the contrary to use voltage feed back and gave me this link a-c current transformer functional ... - Google Patents that show some schematics with it. I'm going to try a shoot in the dark and construct some circuits with the solder less board.

    I don't know how to calculate the R3 and R4 values, R4 means that there is an off set. R3 should be greater than 500 i think. but i don't know much how it affects the lock range i just don't understand it very well i didn't found much information about it. I found a program by philips that calculate the all pll values i tried out a few but there were some questions i didn't know how to answer and i don't have windows computer here. This is the link for the program EDA Software Center Elektroda.pl

    information about Phaselock techniques
    http://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2009/05/contents.pdf


    Wont this schematic seem with the feed back?
     

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    Last edited: May 23, 2009
  11. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    Last edited: May 24, 2009
  12. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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  13. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    Go for it Buckaroo you have an equal chance of traveling through the 8th dimension too.
    Why the guy who posted it went to such trouble to layout a non functioning design is beyond me.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    There are many factors that could influence the non functionality he is using 1 phase comparator and not 2 as i'm planning to use is a similar circuit not exactly what it really is any way i'm going to work on it and get the best ideas from it and put it to work i'm sure of that.
     
  15. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

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    The main factor being the design has no scientific reason to function even if every part of the circuit does exactly what you want.
     
  16. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    Science is science. Electronics is electronics. And what i want is what i want. There is no reason this circuit could not work, it have being designed to work as described, and circuits of any kind are made to let us to do what we need to do to achieve a certain behavior or result. This circuit is not over unity is just simple pll with some control parameters. As soon as it is ready i'll post it here with the right values for all components for it to work as desired.
     
  17. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    My mistake. It's another useless water resonator.

    Can you tell me what frequency water resonates at?
     
  18. sebosfato

    sebosfato New Member

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    :D

    it will resonate in my case at about 5khz, there will be like 20% variance in the Resonant frequency of the circuit because bubbles and temperature and other factors, type of water ... Meyer said that water 2pp should have something like 10% thats why i decided to built this circuit to track and lock to it automatically. Is almost ready now because i worked since yesterday non stop... on this weekend will probably be ready i hope. Than the next step will be to test my theories to see if its right. or wrong. This circuit will able me to do things i couldn't do with any other circuit and so i think is probably what was missing to me than the rest is all about transformer design ...
    :)
     
  19. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    Har. Good luck. Bye bye now.
     
  20. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

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    5khz? The frequencies not high enough to do anything. Even basic over the counter jewlery cleaning machines use 15khz or higher, what're you gonna do with 5khz? I could beat that with an audio power amplifier and a sound generator.
     
  21. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    My next car should work when I hum at 5kHz
     

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