Chinese or Japanese translaton

[jpanhalt]

This box came off a Komatsu MRx excavator (Japanese). It was attached directly across the battery (non-switched, not fused). All it seemed to do was run the battery down. I disconnected it and nothing I could tell had changed. All warning signals, gauges, etc. worked the same. It is a grey-market excavator, so asking the American dealer is a futile.

Any idea what the words on it mean? The box is about 2-1/2" X 3-1/2".

Regards,

John

View attachment 66153

 

[Mickster]

From the stuff on the sticker, I managed to find this:

**broken link removed**

a battery desulfator perhaps?

 

[jpanhalt]

Oh, it is revolutionary, high-tech battery life extender using a microprocessor that cleans the battery electrodes with no outside power applied. Moreover, it is patent pending, so it must work.

No wonder the battery was totally discharged and ruined. At least, that happened 10-months into the new Walmart battery the excavator came with, so I got a free battery.

Thanks for looking that up. I was completely clueless where to start. I have had it disconnected now since early Spring, and the battery is working better than ever -- even after sitting for 3 months.

If I decide to open it up, I will post pictures.

BTW, did you somehow enter the characters from the picture, or were you able to read them and enter them as proper characters?

John

 

[Mickster]

If I decide to open it up, I will post pictures.

Please do, John. I have an avid interest in stuff in little boxes.

BTW, did you somehow enter the characters from the picture, or were you able to read them and enter them as proper characters?

John

Heck no, I can't read any of those characters. I can only make those character matches when playing Mahjonng!
I simply did a search for '12v 2001-402237'.

Regards.

 

[jpanhalt]

It is a 2001 excavator. I never cease to be amazed at what useful results can be obtained with so little information in Google. Maybe Nigel will confirm before I break the box open (it's sealed plastic).

John

 

[atferrari]

I simply did a search for '12v 2001-402237'.

Regards.

Clever man!

 

[jpanhalt]

Well, I broke the box open. Guess what? There is an NE555 inside, no MCU, along with lots of potting resin. I will power it up with 12V and see what's on pin3, etc., tomorrow. Tonight, it is more women's beach volleyball for me.

John

 

[4pyros]

Yes its a battery desulfator gone bad.

 

[jpanhalt]

@ 4pyros: I am not sure a desulfator can desulfate the source from which it is powered. Can you point to a design that does that?

I powered it up with a 12V supply. Pin 3 of the NE555 puts out a square wave at 10.16 KHz with a duty cycle of 86%. Those might be the "magic" numbers for those who believe in desulfators. With a 50 Ω resistor in the supply line, you can see the expected glitches as the 555 switches. With no resistor and even with a relatively low current supply (Agilent E3630A), the power line was absolutely steady.

There is an LED that flashes. Maybe this is an expensive LED flasher to remind the operator he still has a battery. Unfortunately, it is in the battery compartment that is not easily seen from the operator's station.

Edit: Total current draw is about 20 mA (i.e., about 0.5 Ah per day).

John

 

[Mr RB]

@ 4pyros: I am not sure a desulfator can desulfate the source from which it is powered. Can you point to a design that does that?
...

I've seen that, they run from the battery and there is an inductor that sends a high current pulse back to the battery.

It sounds a bit flakey to me but IF the high current pulse back into the battery stops sulfation, then it's easy enough to produce that pulse from the battery itself.

 

[4pyros]

@ 4pyros: I am not sure a desulfator can desulfate the source from which it is powered. Can you point to a design that does that?

I powered it up with a 12V supply. Pin 3 of the NE555 puts out a square wave at 10.16 KHz with a duty cycle of 86%. Those might be the "magic" numbers for those who believe in desulfators. With a 50 Ω resistor in the supply line, you can see the expected glitches as the 555 switches. With no resistor and even with a relatively low current supply (Agilent E3630A), the power line was absolutely steady.

There is an LED that flashes. Maybe this is an expensive LED flasher to remind the operator he still has a battery. Unfortunately, it is in the battery compartment that is not easily seen from the operator's station.

Edit: Total current draw is about 20 mA (i.e., about 0.5 Ah per day).

John

Google "desulfator circuit" and look under images. You will see many. The self powered ones are almost as numeris as the powered ones witch just charge and then desulfate.

 

[jpanhalt]

So, according to your theory, you can desulfate a charged battery by discharging it. That seems to ignore that discharging a battery is what produces lead (II) sulfate.

You can find lots of wrong stuff on Google, including circuits for running cars on water.

John

 

[Pommie]

A little story about my experience of battery desulfators.

I moved to Australia in 2003 and about 1 year later was living in a nice house and had horses. I bought and setup an electric fence around the paddock. The only batteries I had were 2 * 7AH 12V SLAs that had been discharged for about 18 months. I managed to get a bit of charge in them and they lasted about a week before needing recharging. Surprisingly, 6 months later they were lasting a month.

I believe this is where the idea for battery desulfators came from. The pulse that goes into the fence ends up back in the battery if there is no path to ground and so the idea that an inductive pulse back into the battery could cause defulsation was born.

And so, I do believe desulfators work. They need to take a small current for a relatively long time and then pulse that current back in a much shorter time.

However, the idea of a permanent unit is just silly and will cause sulfation.

Anyway, anyone that doesn't believe it, all you need do is try an electric fence unit.

Edit, BTW, I'd never heard of these units until I investigated why my batteries got "better".

Have fun,

Mike.

 

[4pyros]

So, according to your theory, you can desulfate a charged battery by discharging it. That seems to ignore that discharging a battery is what produces lead (II) sulfate.

You can find lots of wrong stuff on Google, including circuits for running cars on water.

John

I never said thay worked just pointing you to the info you asked for. Do with what you want, but thay do exist.

 

[Mickster]

Can you (jpanhalt) draw out the schematic and post it for analysis please?

We have Mr RB's two-transistor SMPS design currently being extensively scrutinised, discussed and simmed, maybe this circuit could also benefit from similar attention?

Regards.

 

[4pyros]

He said it was partly potted so complete disassembly may be difficult.

 

[Mickster]

True Andy, but not impossible.

 

[4pyros]

True Andy, but not impossible.

Maybe with a good heat gun outside.

 

[jpanhalt]

I tried chipping the potting resin. It is hard and does not separate from the components easily. Getting the NE555 exposed was luck.

John