# Automatic spoiler 'contest'

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#### BibaResto

##### Member
Actually I prefer two people who Absolutely Know Without A Doubt they can make the spoiler, as found on Ltd. and Base Chrysler Crossfires, to work on my 2005 SRT6 Crossfire (XF). One of the persons is a programmer, the other knowledgeable in what electronics to utilize to make the program work. I prefer this to mount inside the spoiler if possible.

The amount I’ll pay for a complete functioning automatic spoiler is $500.00. If you can also utilize the original dash switch I’ll include another$100.00. The deadline for the completed/functional spoiler is no later than March 29, 2018.

The spoiler should automatically open at 62 mph and close at 42 mph. The SRT6 comes with an exterior non-movable wing. It can easily be removed and the working, automatic spoiler can be directly bolted in. Meaning no additional equipment/fasteners are needed to install the functional spoiler (and dash switch) I have - of course along with whatever ‘equipment’ you have ‘designed’.

I have included a number of comments in the past regarding the spoiler on this forum, so please check them out before asking any questions. There are also photos of the equipment and what little I know about the spoiler’s workings.

I do have the spoiler and switch and about a dozen generic switches - none of which will open and close the spoiler. I can make the spoiler open and close by switching the two wires on the motor.

I am illiterate in electronics. I will add, with no more than a toe in the water, I understand a lot can be done with varying voltages.

Go back to around May 2016 for the previous posts. I’m pretty sure this was the Forum.

#### BobW

##### Active Member
I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here, but after skimming through that thread, it appears that it was never definitively stated that the motor is supposed to reverse, yet there was a lot of discussion about motor reversing circuits and switching. My own experience with an automotive actuator (pop up headlights in my case) is that the motor does not reverse. It simply operates a cam or a crankshaft. At 0° of cam/crank rotation, the device is retracted. At 180°, the device is extended. To retract the mechanism, power is simply re-applied, the motor rotates in the same direction until it hits 360° —the starting position— and then it stops. Limit switches are located at the 0° and 180° positions to stop the mechanism in the correct positions. The advantage of this type of mechanism is that a failed limit switch won't cause the mechanism to jam. If a limit switch fails then the device either doesn't run at all or else it continuously cycles (just like windshield wipers running continuously). Circuit operation is very simple. Either limit switch will stop the motor. To cause it to operate, you need only shunt one of the limit switches. It will move to the opposite position and the other limit switch will then stop it.

#### BibaResto

##### Member
(I sure wish I didn't have to log in every time I visit).

BobW, trust me the very torquey motor starts out clockwise (depending on how you're viewing it) until the limit switch stops it. Then turns counterclockwise to lower the spoiler, again stopped by a separate limit switch. I assume the difference between your auto headlights is this arrangement has a small gear at the end of the motor which turns a much larger gear. This gear is attached to a longish rod, which turns gears at the ends opening and closing the levers attached to the spoiler.

My thinking to just get them to open and close was to follow diagrams for power windows. I'll add that I installed power windows in my Alfa Alfetta GT which came with wind up windows. As long as the battery is completely charged, they work quite well.

But jumping to what I feel might be the most difficult spoiler part is the opening and closing at specific speeds. I'm sure the speedometer can't and shouldn't be hacked. But is there a nifty electronic device which can be triggered using very specific voltages? If it had the means to physically turn the voltage up or down, it shouldn't take long to dial it in.

#### Misterbenn

##### Active Member
But is there a nifty electronic device which can be triggered using very specific voltages? If it had the means to physically turn the voltage up or down, it shouldn't take long to dial it in.
supper simple - comparator, and looks like people have already said that in your previous post. The OBD was also mentioned as a way to get the speed, which I think is a good idea.

To put your $500 in perspective, I've got some school students at the moment designing a spoiler (mechanics and motor drive) as a engineering in school project. The budget for this is £1000. For your spoiler you could probably get all the parts in for under$500, particularly if you have the spoiler already, but you leave no pay for the engineers.

#### BobW

##### Active Member
BobW, trust me the very torquey motor starts out clockwise (depending on how you're viewing it) until the limit switch stops it. Then turns counterclockwise to lower the spoiler, again stopped by a separate limit switch.
Okay, good. Just thought I should check.

As for a speed signal, I think every vehicle from the mid-1990's onward has a master speed signal that operates speedometer, the ABS and cruise control. That signal should be accessible without too much effort, and would be the logical choice.

#### BibaResto

##### Member
(I wrote the following yesterday, but failed to email it).

JimB was kind enough to send me the URL of the past responses regarding the automatic rear spoiler.

I’ll add that I’d stopped replying in 2016 because a two person team (programmer and electronics expert) emailed me saying they would take on the project. The estimate was $250 for everything. When I asked the programer if he was confident to do it, he replied that absolutely he/they could come up with what was needed. I probably shot myself in the foot by only waiting a couple of weeks, brief reply, and a month later checked in. I received a letter from the programer saying he (not his term) said he had a lot on his plate so would have to bail on the project. I was disappointed since it was more-or-less a done deal. However I fully understood since at times I need to pass on an additional restoration project so as to concentrate on the ones in the shop. *********** Misterbenn, thank you for the offer. While I didn't state it, my plan is to ship the spoiler to whoever has at least a semi-functioning program. It would then be used to test the ability to open and close the spoiler ulitizing the limit switches. The latter is most important since the round torquey motor is only attached with a cable tie. If the motor doesn’t stop automatically, the motor will continue turning which causes the contact to both bend and ground to metal. Perhaps students in the UK are unlike those in the US who pay to attend classes. I’m not dismissing your offer, but feel the student project is akin to at least partially paying for their tuition along with enough money to cover any trial and error electronic adaptations. Should you have a sharp student or pair of students who can program and build a somewhat difficult device in their spare time by March 29, 2018, please have them contact me. For now I’ll be keeping the figure at (US)$500.00.

Biba

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
BobW:

Take a look here: http://electromen.com/en/products/item/motor-controllers/dc-motor/EM-231/ I recently found this controller and it does have some of the safety aspects of a good design.

There is a CAN bus that has speed accessible under the hood.

The factory limit switches utilize a +5 V signal.

Operation of Overide:
The spoiler can also be deployed at lower speeds using
an override switch mounted in the center console.
Once manually deployed, the spoiler will only retract by
pressing the bottom of the spoiler switch. The spoiler will
then retract in steps as long as the switch is depressed. If
the switch is depressed until the spoiler is fully retracted,
a short beep will be heard, and automatic control will be
reestablished.

The spoiler manual: http://www.crossfire-garage.fr/docu...R SERVICE PARTS AND PROCEDURES 2004-10-05.pdf

Info gathered on the web suggests steps when extending. Excessive current when deploying causes it to retract to home.

A schematic is here: http://www.electro-tech-online.com/attachments/spoiler_schematic-jpg.102834/ There's another schematic (except SRT) which has a 200 ohm resistor for the switch, a high side driven diagnostic LED (unknown Vf), a high side Illumination LED (unknown Vf). Unknown voltage applied to switch, but I think it might be 5V. would need to extract the page. Attached as Alternate_Spoiler_Schematic.

If the controller (except SRT model) had a 200 ohm pull down resistor in it, then you would have 0V, 1/2 Vcc and Vcc as thresholds with 0V being OFF. Down = 2.5 V and Up ~ Vcc. It would also make 12.5 mA a good number for wetting current. Thresholds of 1/3 and 2/3 Vcc with three windows should work fine.

The wierd limit switch arrangement causes problems too. Based on the schematic only, the switches open when at a limit and are pulled to ground in between the limits. Not confirmed independently.

Even for a simple controller, the limit circuit designed wrong could cause the motor to briefly turn on at say every engine start.

We never got from Biba critical information:

1. The value of the internal switch resistor. There is apparently a LED in that switch too and possibly illumination. The switch on the (except SRT model) which i assume Biba has is wired differently. The spoiler switch MIGHT HAVE 6 terminals with 4 being active.

2. At least the operating motor current. Motor resistance is harder to get.
This https://www.pololu.com/product/2452 and a few xtra parts would help get a reading assuming < +- 15.5 A is probably a good max number. You need a 5 V supply. Possibly a cell phone USB adapter.

Life for me has gotten very crazy, now being a full time caregiver for a bed confined parent. I'd be willing to try to reverse engineer the switch for starters.

Mating connectors are another issue.

My concern seems to be the same as Biba's right now. Any overrun without motor protection is likely to do damage. That was and is my biggest concern. The automotive environment with power supply dips and swings is another.

Some order of magnitude current draw, I think, is essential to proceed. There's 40 extra lbs of downward force on the spoiler. That's a big number.

It's a really tough project. With typical professional labor rates at say $150.00/hr (I'll use an auto mechanic as an example), I don't think a design can be done in less than 4 hours. #### Attachments • 179.8 KB Views: 31 #### Misterbenn ##### Active Member (I wrote the following yesterday, but failed to email it). Perhaps students in the UK are unlike those in the US who pay to attend classes. I’m not dismissing your offer, but feel the student project is akin to at least partially paying for their tuition along with enough money to cover any trial and error electronic adaptations. Should you have a sharp student or pair of students who can program and build a somewhat difficult device in their spare time by March 29, 2018, please have them contact me. Biba To clarify I wasn't offering my students just trying to explain that the price your listing may not be sufficient as in this thread you hadn't until just now explained that you have the spoiler and motor. Misterbenn, thank you for the offer. While I didn't state it, my plan is to ship the spoiler to whoever has at least a semi-functioning program. Biba That won't guarantee a working system, without the car its not possible to check the CAN bus or other speed measurement signals are working correctly. My thoughts on this, were I to do it, get an Inertial measurement unit (IMU) to calculate the speed, use an Arduino with a motor shield or beefy H-bridge (we don't know the current requirement yet) to drive the motor. This would then work as a separate unit with only a power connection to the car. Or if not an IMU, maybe an air flow sensor. #### KeepItSimpleStupid ##### Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member here's https://www.sailesmarketing.com/shop/can-bus-interfaces/cb-2-can-bus-interface/ an interface with not a bad price that supports the Crossfire out of the box. So, you can get Speed and RPM signals from the Crossfire. See https://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/CANBUS-CB2/CANBUS+CB2+Speed+and+RPM+Interface for a price about$165.00 AUD or about $130.00 USD. for RPM and Speed. Frequency: Approx. 1Hz per mph Output voltage: 12V square wave Minimum speed: 1.7mph Approx. pulse/mile: 3600 Engine speed: 2 pulses per revolution Would save a lot of work and the vehicle should not be needed. You still need an Autoelectronics installer to install it and run wires to the trunk if this is the most likely spot for a controller and assuming the manufacturer wants it in the engine compartment. #### ClydeCrashKop ##### Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member This will get you speed for$14.53. Almost plug & play.

GPS Module with Ceramic Antenna for DIY Handheld Positioning System for $7.86 http://www.dx.com/p/open-smart-gps-...ino-apm2-5-flight-control-480918#.WiDKElWnH4Y This is the data, info & an Arduino sketch that works as is. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6uNNXJ2z4CxVGtacFJiM1B6OTQ?usp=sharing UNO R3 ATmega328P Development Board With Boot Loader For Arduino UNO$6.67
https://www.walmart.com/ip/UNO-R3-A...9984&wl11=online&wl12=846733793&wl13=&veh=sem

Just 3 pins / wires to solder.

This is the NEMA ascii sentence that it works with

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#### BibaResto

##### Member
For now, I'm putting the Automatic portion of this thread on hold (unless someone feels they are capable of designing and producing a working 'unit'). Today after looking at a no brainer switch diagram I thought Id give it a try. Easy, piesy. After wiring it up and as luck would have it I pushed the double pole double throw switch and the spoiler went up. Pushed the other side and it went down. How I've missed this in the past is beyond me.

I've had a copy of this diagram below and tried it in the past, but couldn't make it work. Okay, a ($50 if you use Paypal;$25 if I have to send a check) for someone to read through this article - RobMyerProductions/bows.html. Even if you have in the past please make another run through. What I need is verification of the following:

I had both SPDT relays wired the same - from the top 85 86 / bottom 87A 30 87 - correct?
A diode needs to be wired in - what would you suggest for the diode (be specific & color of the colored stripes would be nice). Where are they wired in specifically - meaning not a name, but a location for both ends?
Switch - is a single pole single throw or double pole double throw? I'm guessing a single pole single throw since that's the only switch I don't have.

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