12 volt constant analog source with variable frequency..

[outlawstc]

i am looking to create a unipolar analog voltage source that is 12 volt constant in wave amplitude being powered by a car battery.. i want it to be variable in a 20hz- 5khz range if possible and 0-6amps current capable maybe a lil more then 6 if its not car from reach since this aplitude and sourece is meant to drive a primary

i then want the output of that source to have a amplitude control circuit to vary the source from 0-12v..

i want the variable amplitude output to be gated by a driving circuit... the driving circuit would need to be controlled by a pll circuit....


the goal would be to get the pll circuit to where it can lock onto climbing voltage freq and send to driver circuit to maintain a resonant frequency.. when you have a environment that resonance is constantly changing between 30hz- 10khz

anyone willing to help it would be greatly appreciated

thanks,
outawstc

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

You just know this is yet another crazy HHO scam

 

[outlawstc]

You just know this is yet another crazy HHO scam

so you label my project as a scam? my question to you is where do you get the idea to label someones project a crazy scam? sounds pretty radical and on guard... for starts the only relation to hho would be the car battery mentioned in my description having a inter relation of the car for hho.. other then that im simply working on a resonant frequency generator that locks on to resonant freq of a circuit.? what does it matter what my project is? there are wise people (ones with more and accurate perspective and knowledge) and there are the wise people which can listen and follow the teachings of fellow wise.. they can both be wise but to just assume radical views will only make a butt out of me and you...
anyways i am experimenting with a special 3 phase wound alternator that is rectified in different manner.. my alternator has 9 different wires on the stator total... 3 per phase.. and has 6 diodes..

so tell me goodwin where is there a scam in ones interest in experimenting with resonance?

 

[Hero999]

Why didn't you say so in the first place?

I hope you'll forgive Nigel's remark but please understand there are many HHO schemes on the internet and most threads which contain the keywords PWM, resonant frequency and car battery end up being about a run your car on water or use HHO to boost your car's efficiency scheme. We often try to tell the original poster that it's a scam but they invariably don't want to know, the thread then deteriorates to insults, infractions are handed out, then it gets closed.

Are you talking about adjusting the current to the field coil?

I have an idea but it doesn't work with very light loads and the duty cycle can't go all the way to 100%, although it can be be very close, 99%.

 

[outlawstc]

yes i understand there are many scams that are nothin more then standard electrolysis being spread though out the net when it comes top hho production, but i also know that there are many overlooked observations to the works of one who has over 30 patents pertaining to this subject of hho generation and efficiency. so to label stuff from one perspective just helps block somthing from being further looked into to define a full perspective.. im simply just looking to see what resonance can do as a hobbyist.. whether it be air, water, soil or fire interacting between discharge or field it doesnt matter..

im looking to be able to supply a load of around 3-3.5 amps and 5volts being sent to the rotor so im guessing 12 would be around 6 or 7 amps..

my alternator is wound in a interesting fashion 3 winds per phase all wires wound where all norths are one way..2 of the three were wound together while one was wound alone.. the alone wire is electrically linked to the 2 that are wound together.. the 2 that are wound together act as a positive and negative bifilar choke while the alone acts as secondary.. with them all wound in the same direction around the core and the way they are wired it allows electron flow in all three coils to aid in displacment while the 2 wound together will resonantly charge.. the positive choke has a diode on each side only allowing current to flow into secondary..

i want to be able to provide a unipolar variable frequency and variable amplitude with a gated frequwncy to the primary of my alternators rotor.. i dont think the high freqs will make a different on the rotor but one must have to option to know..

 

[Hero999]

There are all sorts of myths about the resonant frequency of water. I no expert but I could easily write a page on the subject but I'll condense it to a couple of sentences. The truth is that the lowest resonant frequency of water is way up in the microwave band (<20GHz) and that only exists when water is in the gaseous phase. Liquid water has no sharp resonant peak because each molecule is hydrogen bonded to its neighbour thereby dampening any resonance.

Basic physics pretty much proves HHO as a non-starter: you get less energy back from burning hydrogen, than what it took to obtain the hydrogen from water in the first place. I'm not discouraging research in to more efficient electrolysis methods because it has valid application e.g. allowing energy to be stored in hydrogen which is a more compact form than batteries.

Just because something is patented, it doesn't mean that it works or is a good idea. Having a patent doesn't even prove that the idea is new. A patent is only worth something if it works, it's economical to produce, people want it and it has been tested in court or is water tight enough and you have good enough lawyers to put anyone off testing it.

Please post a schematic of your alternator. What do you mean by primary and secondary? Only transformers have a primary and secondary, alternators normally just have a DC filed coil and a coil on the stator for each phase.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Most of us can sniff HHO hooey pretty fast.

 

[Hero999]

Brown's gas causes brain damage.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Good for welding, that's about it.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

when you have a environment that resonance is constantly changing between 30hz- 10khz

How would you calculate the current frequency at any given moment?

 

[outlawstc]

the myth is not a myth just a misunderstanding.. when people question what is meant by the resonance of water its as simple as what is the resonance of a circuit.. to tune into resonance in a circuit what does one do? what does one look for? they look for the effect of higher voltage correct? so if we are looking for a effect with water what would it be? a higher production correct... simple enough this is what is meant if one says they are searching and wanting to hit resonance with water to fuel production.. we all know they say it cant be done and it is backed by laws such as the law of conservation but ask your self one simple question.. if you know that used energy consumption is measured in the form of amps. and amps are how the electrolysis process works,.. then you hear in the grape vine the presence of potential (stored energy) alone can effect a atom on a atomic level when the atoms are in relative space with the stored energy.. if this is tru then higher potential means higher effects??.. but how can you build a voltage that doesnt discharge in the form of amps? it must have a resistance to the release of that potential a standard capacitor does not provide the resistance a coil wire capacitor can during discharging... there is a difference in the magnetic coupling within a capacitor and with paired wires on a core...



here is a picture of my windings on my 3 phase alternator.. notice all poles same direction.. and the red and black ones are wound at the same time.. the green was put in on top of the red and black for each phase.. there are 18 wire ends compared to the 6 in a standard alternator
**broken link removed**

 

[tcmtech]

What brand and model of alternator?
That concept as you have it drawn is very inefficient and rather limited for practicality of aplication.

Is it a new GM design?

 

[Hero999]

the myth is not a myth just a misunderstanding..

Yes, a myth is a common misunderstanding or general ignorance of the truth.

when people question what is meant by the resonance of water its as simple as what is the resonance of a circuit..

No it isn't that simple.

A water molecule is a three dimensional structure which is more complicated than a simple LC circuit.

to tune into resonance in a circuit what does one do?

What circuit are you trying to tune?

what does one look for? they look for the effect of higher voltage correct?

If it's a series resonant circuit you'll get a high voltage across the inductor or capacitor but the voltage across both the capacitor and inductor will be low because the voltages will be out of phase so will cancel each other. The current will be very high as the only thing limiting it is the series resistance of the inductor and capacitor.

If it's a parallel circuit, it'll be the other way round. The current flowing through the capacitor and inductor will be very high, yet if you measured the current through both in parallel, it would be near zero. The voltage across both the inductor and capacitor will be equal to the supply.

so if we are looking for a effect with water what would it be? a higher production correct..

It depends on whether it's a liquid, gas or solid.

Liquid water doesn't have a sharp resonant peak, as I mentioned above and neither does liquid water.

The liquid water resonance myth probably started when microwave ovens became popular, here's a few sites which debunk it.

liquid water doesn't have a resonant frequency.

High Voltage in your Kitchen: Unwise Microwave Oven Experiments , page 4

Microwave heating is sometimes explained as a resonance of water molecules, but this is incorrect: such resonance only occurs in water vapour at much higher frequencies, at about 20 GHz

Microwave oven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More information:
How Everything Works - Question 1456
**broken link removed**

In order to get it to resonate, you first need to vaporise it, then bombard it with microwave radiation close to its resonant frequency about 22GHz. The sharp resonant peak would absorb the radiation which will just cause heating.

22GHz is well above the frequency range of high powered transistors so you'll need a magnetron, klystron or TWT amplifier to generate enough power to be noticeable at that frequency.

. si if you know that used energy consumption is measured in the form of amps. and amps are how the electrolysis process works,.

No, energy is measured in Joules, electrical current is measured in Amps.

. then you hear in the grape vine the presence of potential (stored energy) alone can effect a atom on a atomic level when the atoms are in relative space with the stored energy.. if this is tru then higher potential means higher effects??.. but how can you build a voltage that doesnt discharge in the form of amps? it must have a resistance to the release of that potential a standard capacitor does not provide the resistance a coil wire capacitor can during discharging... there is a difference in the magnetic coupling within a capacitor and with paired wires on a core...

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

here is a picture of my windings on my 3 phase alternator.. notice all poles same direction.. and the red and black ones are wound at the same time.. the green was put in on top of the red and black for each phase.. there are 18 wire ends compared to the 6 in a standard alternator

That's very odd indeed and is probably very inefficient too.

Normally a full wave rectifier is used, that's a half wave which will probably cause core saturation which is bad.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

It takes much more energy than you'll recover.

 

[outlawstc]

Quote Originally Posted by outlawstc View Post
the myth is not a myth just a misunderstanding..

response: Yes, a myth is a common misunderstanding or general ignorance of the truth.

when people question what is meant by the resonance of water its as simple as what is the resonance of a circuit..

response:No it isn't that simple.
A water molecule is a three dimensional structure which is more complicated than a simple LC circuit.

to tune into resonance in a circuit what does one do?

response: What circuit are you trying to tune?

what does one look for? they look for the effect of higher voltage correct?

response: If it's a series resonant circuit you'll get a high voltage across the inductor or capacitor but the voltage across both the capacitor and inductor will be low because the voltages will be out of phase so will cancel each other. The current will be very high as the only thing limiting it is the series resistance of the inductor and capacitor.


REPLY:

ok all of this is just chopped up confusion... my simple point i was trying to make is that the ones who developed the water tech when saying the phrases "looking for or tuning into the resonance of water" dont refer to frequency they refer to the increase of production in time frame.. has nothin to do with the frequency one is looking for to pulse the water at.. it was never mentioned that there was any tuning into the frequency of water just the production of conversion...

it was said though that there were resonant effects to production by the use of dynamic states of space as well as static states of space being used in a sequential mode within a resonant cavity..

A water molecule is a three dimensional structure which is more complicated than a simple LC circuit.

sure a LC circuit may not play a role with 3d structure. BUT 2 plates spaced parallel are two 2d planes that are placed within space.. so cant two 2d plates fluxuate in states of space and will they not interact with 3 dimensional structures between the gap refered to as a resonant cavity similar to a capacitor.???

blueroomelectronics

It takes much more energy than you'll recover.

maybe, maybe not depends on the unseen effects.. have you seen many people experiment with such circuits? or have they always been led in the direction that it is a waste of time because according to conventional standards it doesnt meet the criteria of efficiency?.. im not shy to failure nor am i shy to trying

 

[tcmtech]

I am still wondering what exactly you are trying to gain from this and what type of alternator you are using?

 

[outlawstc]

im using a old ford f-250 alternator. it has 6 poles south and 6 poles north on the rotor. im curious to see its effects when u have 3 wires in series on the stator per phase its not a stock configuration its rewound. 2 out of the 3 wires per phase are wound at the same time, while one was wound alone and all three placed in each phase.. the two wound together represent positive and negative choke.. while the positive choke of each phase has a blocking diode between the positive wind and whats considered the secondary postive of the 3 wires... having 9 different wires wound on the stator total.. all nine in operation are aiding in current flow since electrons all travel in the same direction.. im simply curious to see the output and characteristics of such a circuit first hand.. i figure in most cases inductor chokes are never considered to be on a core with the secondary so for the most ideas of induction no one ever reflects on such a circuit to not only electrically interact with a choke but you also have a matched emf primary pulsing supporting the interaction of the electrical signal. i may be wrong with this perspective and it may be common i dont know.. im interested just to see how it reacts to loads as well as if it has any effects within the circuit itself..

 

[blueroomelectronics]

maybe, maybe not depends on the unseen effects..

What unseen effects? What are you basing this on?

 

[tcmtech]

I think you need to do considerable amounts of reading and studying on AC multiphase motor and generator principals in aplication and design.

All you have done is change it from a 12 volt output system, assuming the original windings where in triple delta configuration, to a roughly 25 volt output system with a much lower amp capacity being that all three phases are running at half wave instead of full wave.

The middle diodes you have on each leg serve no purpose since all three winding sets are on the same iron core and in the same phase orientation to the others.

Basically all you made is a less efficient alternator than Ford made themselves.

 

[Hero999]

ok all of this is just chopped up confusion... my simple point i was trying to make is that the ones who developed the water tech when saying the phrases "looking for or tuning into the resonance of water" dont refer to frequency they refer to the increase of production in time frame.. has nothin to do with the frequency one is looking for to pulse the water at.. it was never mentioned that there was any tuning into the frequency of water just the production of conversion...

it was said though that there were resonant effects to production by the use of dynamic states of space as well as static states of space being used in a sequential mode within a resonant cavity..

sure a LC circuit may not play a role with 3d structure. BUT 2 plates spaced parallel are two 2d planes that are placed within space.. so cant two 2d plates fluxuate in states of space and will they not interact with 3 dimensional structures between the gap refered to as a resonant cavity similar to a capacitor.???

maybe, maybe not depends on the unseen effects.. have you seen many people experiment with such circuits? or have they always been led in the direction that it is a waste of time because according to conventional standards it doesnt meet the criteria of efficiency?.. im not shy to failure nor am i shy to trying

What do the following terms mean?

Production of conversion
dynamic states of space
static states of space
fluxuate in states of space

I Googled them all and didn't find out much about what you're talking about.

Sorry but it seems like most of what you've said above is pure pseudoscience. It seems like you've been reading too many HHO and overunity material without applying enough critical thinking.