Would like some help with electrolysis circuit. [updated]

[tuxamd]

I need help finding the parts to and figuring out how to make this circuit. It's for a simple experiment I want to try out, and it's basic function is a pulse generator. However the last time I made any circuits was years ago and they were simple never requiring any ICs and parts of that sort.

What I'm trying to figure out is the following:
1. What is the whole box around the TC4420CPA and what it is in the first place.
2. By the word throttle it says 100k. I'm assuming that's a 100k poteometer? I know the designer of this didn't do a good job drawing this but it's up to me to figure out where that poteometer should go. I don't see any specific markings for it's location.
3. What kind of fuse do I need for where it says 12V DC fuse? The author didn't specify any amperage or anything. I'm assuming this is a pretty weak circuit and doesn't require too much power, and also thinking about the power of a typical car battery, does anyone have any guesses for what kind it should be?
4. The 3 triangles for CD4069 is an IC chip 4069 with it's different pins as marked in the diagram right? Does this also apply for LM741?
5. At the bottom of the design there are a number of capacitors. I thought all capacitors are measured in uf? What's u and pf?

I know these questions may seem pretty stupid to some but I would appreciate any help as I don't know too much about electronics and would like to build this design for an experiment. Once I finish it I'll share more details on it and my results.

And one last question is where would you people recommend I buy all of these parts from? I believe Mouser Electronics is the best and has them all, however their ordering system is the most confusing I've ever seen. It's hard to find any parts on their website and even harder to order them.

Update:

So far the list of parts I have I need to get are:

Misc:
1 Fuse 12V DC 5.5A
504-AGA-6 - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/399.pdf
44FH052 - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/1543.pdf
1 Power Supply 12V DC 5A
418-CFM60S120 https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/1340.pdf
1 Power LED
1 N4007 Diode
625-1N4007 - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/315.pdf
4 Dipswitches
571-14358025 - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/1080.pdf

Poteometers:
1 2k (do I need a linear or audio?)
31JN302 - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/451.pdf
3 20k
688-RK09D1130A0Z - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/453.pdf

Resistors
2 10k
660-CF1/4L103J - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/424.pdf
4 1k
660-CF1/4L - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/424.pdf

Transistors & ICs
1 IRF510 (The author wrote iFr while you state iRf, though I'd believe you guys more )
512-IRF510A - https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/346.pdf
datasheet - https://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/IR/IRF510A.pdf
1 TC4420CPA
579-TC4420CPA - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/202.pdf
datasheet - **broken link removed**
1 NE555
511-NE555D - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/207.pdf
datasheet - https://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2182.pdf
1 LM741
511-UA741CN - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/232.pdf
datasheet - https://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/5304.pdf
1 CD4069
512-CD4069UBCM - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/182.pdf
datasheet - https://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/CD/CD4069UBC.pdf

Capacitors:
1 10uf
647-UVR1C100MDD - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/487.pdf
3 .1uf
647-UVR2A0R1MDD - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/487.pdf
1 1uf
647-UVR1H010MDD - https://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/487.pdf
2 .01uf - I can't find anything this low in the normal shape on that website
all of them seem to only be the relaly tiny surface mount capacitors. Does anyone know about this? Is it safe to use the small surface mount ones? Won't my soldering iron burn them?
1.03uf
1 3300pf

Am I missing anything or are any of those wrong?

 

[Exo]

Re: Newbie needs help making a circuit.

I need help finding the parts to and figuring out how to make this circuit. It's for a simple experiment I want to try out, and it's basic function is a pulse generator. However the last time I made any circuits was years ago and they were simple never requiring any ICs and parts of that sort.

What I'm trying to figure out is the following:
1. What is the whole box around the TC4420CPA and what it is in the first place.

It's an IC wich allows easy control of mosfets.
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2005/04/tc4429.pdf

It isnt really a box drawn around it but connections. It just means pins 8 and 1 should be connected to the +12V line and pins 4 and 5 to ground.
The 0.1 µF comes in parallel with that as close as possible to the chip.

2. By the word throttle it says 100k. I'm assuming that's a 100k poteometer? I know the designer of this didn't do a good job drawing this but it's up to me to figure out where that poteometer should go. I don't see any specific markings for it's location.

That's a bit vague indeed. Perhaps you could share some more info about the original purpose of the ckt? Because throttle seems to have something to do with motor speed control? Perheps it was designed for a throttle peddle or something.

3. What kind of fuse do I need for where it says 12V DC fuse? The author didn't specify any amperage or anything. I'm assuming this is a pretty weak circuit and doesn't require too much power, and also thinking about the power of a typical car battery, does anyone have any guesses for what kind it should be?

Again, I think this is a motor speed control ckt, in wich case the fuse depends on the load (the motor)

4. The 3 triangles for CD4069 is an IC chip 4069 with it's different pins as marked in the diagram right? Does this also apply for LM741?

The 4069 is something completely diffirent then the LM741. The LM741 is an operational amplifier, the 4069 is a CMOS chip containing 6 NOT gates.
Its just coincidence both use a triangle.
**broken link removed**
Just to make sure you know those 3 triangles are 1 chip. Pins 14 and 7 are its power supply, the others are the actual inputs and outputs of the gates. I would recommend an additional 0.1µF cap on the IC's power pins.

5. At the bottom of the design there are a number of capacitors. I thought all capacitors are measured in uf? What's u and pf?

a pf is a picofarad. 1/1000000 of a µF. So 3300pF = 3.3nF = 0.0033µF
u is just short for µF, since he didnt have enough space.

And one last question is where would you people recommend I buy all of these parts from? I believe Mouser Electronics is the best and has them all, however their ordering system is the most confusing I've ever seen. It's hard to find any parts on their website and even harder to order them.

They're pretty basic parts, you should be able to get them in any decent electronics store nearby. I'm sure other ppl here know some gd internet shops too.

 

[tuxamd]

Thank you for your wonderful reply! I really appreciate it. Those bits of information will aid me a lot when assembling the actual circuit.

The load will actually be water hehe. It's an electrolysis circuit. I'm not sure how much that will eat from the 12V DC battery. Actually speaking of which I probably won't be using an actual 12V DC battery as specified in there, what sort of 12V power supply would you recommend for this? I'd like to get as much power from it as possible without overloading and burning the components.

The only local shops I can find around here are Radio Shack. But as I've found from the past Radio Shack is quite expensive and marks up small electronic components quite a lot. Also they don't have every single part, so either way I'll still have to shop in another place like Mouser, might as well save some money while I'm at it.

 

[Exo]

I don't know much about water electrolysis. Basically it means you will put 2 probes in water to split it up into hydrogen and oxygen? correct me if i'm wrong.

Such a simple experiment won't require much current at all in wich case you should be able to bypass the entire mosfet circuit (TC4420 & IRF510) and directly use the output from the 555 timer.

As for the fuse , 100mA will do in this case - it'll blow fast on failure.

As for an online shop - I hear https://www.digikey.com mentioned quite a lot over here - u could always take a look .

 

[tuxamd]

Well this is a bit more advanced water electrolysis, there will be many electrodes so I need some juice, preferably as much as the circuit could handle while being safe. As far as the other components, I guess that's why they are there, and I'd like to replicate the original author's experiment so once I know it works I can play around with different variations. What is the most ammount of power do you think I would be able to put through that. And according to that how many amps should a 12V DC power supply and the fuse be?

 

[Exo]

The IRF510, wich will do the actual switching, can handle 5.6A max.
But i would keep it at 5A max to be on the safe side - Also the fet has a Ron of 0.5ohm wich will add up to a power dissipation of 12.5 Watts @ 5A -> Put it on a large heatsink.

And a 5.5 or 6A fuse to accompany that.

As for a power supply - At those amperages a car battery will be the simplest option. Making a power supply of your own - or buying one that'll deliver 5A will cost quite a lot (in perspective)...
Ripping out your car's battery might be the simplest option.

And most important -BE CAREFULL when playing with a car battery. They are very powerfull and literally vaporize wires when shorted (and cause fire - ... ) put the fuse as close as possible to the battery.

 

[Roff]

You need a resistor in series with the pulsewidth adjust pot. I would use 1k, and change the pot to 20k and the cap from pin 6 to GND to 0.01uF. This will prevent you from smoking the 555 and/or the pot, but will still give a wide adjustment range for pulse width.

 

[tuxamd]

Thank you Ron H and Exo both very much for those tips. I will definitely do like you both said and now all that's left is to find the parts and build it. I searched all over the net where I could get some circuit help but nothing is better than this place. And I definitely appreciate it I will post photographs if my experiment becomse successful.

Btw, do you think it would be ok to make this thing on a breadboard? I'm afriad I'll mess up plenty of times and soldering all those would be a pain.

 

[Exo]

if you really are gonne use high currents then a breadboard won't do it.
5A requires good connections and reasonable thickness of wires/traces.

 

[tuxamd]

Ok then in that case I would have to use a soldered circuit. Would it be ok to use those experimental circuit boards with breadboard like design where there are 3 holes per each trace of copper on the board and etc or should I just etch my own with a marker pen?

 

[bryan1]

Hi Tux,
Just use vero board for your prototype circuit. Vero board is a board with rows of copper with holes spaced along it and for handling big amperage just solder in wire tracks on the under side. I use vero board for most of my projects after the breadboard stage so if their is a problem I'm not etching boards for nothing

Hope this helps

Cheers Bryan1

 

[tuxamd]

Thanks for your advice bryan1, I think I'll try that .

Also, is it ok use a 6 AMP fuse for this project but of a higher voltage rating such as 230 or 32? I can't find any others.

 

[ljcox]

Re: Newbie needs help making a circuit.

2. By the word throttle it says 100k. I'm assuming that's a 100k poteometer? I know the designer of this didn't do a good job drawing this but it's up to me to figure out where that poteometer should go. I don't see any specific markings for it's location.

As far as I can see at a quick scan, no-one answered this question.

I would connect a 20k pot between +12V and gnd with the slider connected to the throttle input (ie. the 10k). This will vary the speed (ie. change the mark/space ratio of the 555 output pulse) by changing the reference to the 555.

Len

 

[tuxamd]

Re: Newbie needs help making a circuit.

Thank you for that advice ljcox. I will add one more pot to my list. I'll try it both ways, the worst that can happen is I'll have a spare pot

Also, I don't know much about electronics, but will there really be 5 amps flowing through all of these components if I use a 5 amp power supply? Won't that burn lots of the components out? I'm assuming only a few will actually take on such loads. If so, which ones should I focus on? As I'm ordering from Mouser there is quite some variety of components.

 

[ljcox]

The 5A will only pass through TR3 and, if the load is inductive, the 1N4007 diode when TR3 turns off.

This diode may not be able to cope with pulses of 5 A. Check its data sheet.

The actual current will depend upon what the motor needs. 5A would be the maximum.

Len

 

[tuxamd]

Well actually the load will be water. This is a special circuit for electrolisys.

 

[ljcox]

Well there won't be any inductive spikes, therefore the diode will be safe.

The actual current will depend upon the resistance between the electrodes.

Len

 

[tuxamd]

I don't plan on using any salt water or things of the sort other than regular tap water. I can't use distilled water or else it would be very hard for electrolisys to occur. The distance between each electrode might be 5-10mm of water. I believe it won't draw that much current will it?

 

[ljcox]

It will depend upon on how many salts are in the water. I would not expect much in tap water.

Len

 

[Exo]

Tap water won't allow much current to flow, we're talking mA range , probably even less. but it will increase with every set of probes you add.

As for the question about the fuse. You may use a fuse rated at a higher voltage then required, but never the other way around. So a 220V or 30V fuse is fine.