Tweeter horn

[dr.power]

Hi guys,

As we know the higher frequencies are much directional than the lower ones, So why most of tweeters use a horn?

Thanks

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

For exactly that reason - it's directional, so concentrate it in that direction.

A horn is also a vastly more efficient design, it's an acoustic transformer, it matches the cone to the air - giving something like a tenfold increase.

 

[dr.power]

For exactly that reason - it's directional, so concentrate it in that direction.

A horn is also a vastly more efficient design, it's an acoustic transformer, it matches the cone to the air - giving something like a tenfold increase.

Thanks Nigel For your reply,

Why we need to make a tweeter more directional than what it is? I think the directivity of a tweeter is not a good thing so why make it more directional by a horn? Am I wrong?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Thanks Nigel For your reply,

Why we need to make a tweeter more directional than what it is? I think the directivity of a tweeter is not a good thing so why make it more directional by a horn? Am I wrong?

Yes you are - why do you think it's making it MORE directional than it is?.

Would you sooner have ten tweeters rather than just one?.

 

[audioguru]

I worked with PRO sound systems in theaters and stadiums. They used horn tweeters because they are directional and very efficient.
But their frequency response was all over the place and they had no high frequencies making equalization very important.

The end result sounded OK but I could hear many peaks and nulls in the frequency response (horny sound), no very high audio frequencies and the equalization increased the fairly high distortion.

My home stereo uses dome tweeters that are not directional and have a very flat frequency response. Their distortion is almost nothing.

Here is the frequency response of an un-equalized Altec-Lansing Pro horn tweeter and a photo of a dome tweeter.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

I like the dome tweeters too, but a horn sounds extremely good with valve amps and classical music. They seem a bit slow in responding. Horns in my opinion need a solid state high power amp just to get the voltage up. Low power tube amps are the perfect drivers for horns.

These https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnepan sounded very good when I saw them in a show in the 70's.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I like the dome tweeters too, but a horn sounds extremely good with valve amps and classical music. They seem a bit slow in responding. Horns in my opinion need a solid state high power amp just to get the voltage up. Low power tube amps are the perfect drivers for horns.

Sorry, I don't see any difference?, and you certainly don't need high power for horns, that's the point of them - much greater efficiency.

If AG's Pro systems sounded bad, there was something seriously wrong somewhere, horns are more efficient and cleaner sounding, because they are matched to the air the are moving.

Years back (MANY years) I knew a guy who used to do discos with a 10W amplifier, he used folded horns for bass (using the corner of the room as the final part of the horn), and horns for mid and treble.

Mind you he was a seriously clever guy, with a good degree in electronics, and had worked for people like Ferrograph - you know how they say there's a fine edge between genius and lunacy, he was teetering on that edge, but he was damn clever

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Nigel:

You misunderstood. The only way to get high voltage from a solid state amp is to buy a higher power amp. 5W tube amp can provide much more voltage than a 5 W solid state amp. In a solid state amp the voltage is clamped by design.

Take a tube amp and change the load to 10K, the voltage WILL be higher. Do the same to a solid state amp, nothing happens.

In order to drive a pair of electrostatic drivers say that need 100 V p-p and 0.1 A you either need a high power solid state amp JUST TO GET THE VOLTAGE or make your own specific to the load.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Nigel:

You misunderstood. The only way to get high voltage from a solid state amp is to buy a higher power amp. 5W tube amp can provide much more voltage than a 5 W solid state amp. In a solid state amp the voltage is clamped by design.

I did misunderstand, but all you need to do (if you wanted to do something so strange) is use an impedance matching transformer to feed the load.

For a valve amplifier you would need to wind a special transformer anyway, a standard one only feeds standard impedances.

 

[audioguru]

If AG's Pro systems sounded bad, there was something seriously wrong somewhere, horns are more efficient and cleaner sounding, because they are matched to the air the are moving.

Altec Lansing horn speakers were called "Voice of the Theater". The width of the horn cause sound waves to relect off the horn back and forth causing a delay and cancel frequencies that were directly produced by the voice-coil producing the peaks and nulls. The horn tweeter voice coils had a very high power rating because the voice coil wire was huge and heavy so they had poor high frequency response.

 

[audioguru]

Electrostatic speakers?
I saw and heard two of them about 40 years ago. They produced high frequencies well but had no bass.
They use a stepup transformer that messes up sounds.

 

[dr.power]

Yes you are - why do you think it's making it MORE directional than it is?.

Would you sooner have ten tweeters rather than just one?.

a HORN actually amplifies the output of an emitter by providing an acoustic matching between the emitter and the air. It of course makes the output sound MORE directional than what it already was. Are you agreed? If So, here's the main question:
Why a Tweeter uses a HORN so that make the output of the horn more directional than what it already is? I think the high directivity of a tweeter is not good, so why do we need to use a horn to makes the directivity situation more critical?

 

[dr.power]

I worked with PRO sound systems in theaters and stadiums. They used horn tweeters because they are directional and very efficient.
But their frequency response was all over the place and they had no high frequencies making equalization very important.

The end result sounded OK but I could hear many peaks and nulls in the frequency response (horny sound), no very high audio frequencies and the equalization increased the fairly high distortion.

My home stereo uses dome tweeters that are not directional and have a very flat frequency response. Their distortion is almost nothing.

Here is the frequency response of an un-equalized Altec-Lansing Pro horn tweeter and a photo of a dome tweeter.

Guru,
Why to use a horn on a tweeter so that make the tweeters output more directional??!
Another question is that I would like to know if a horn amplifies and directs all frequencies or it is used just for special frequecnies?

 

[audioguru]

Guru,
Why to use a horn on a tweeter so that make the tweeters output more directional??!

A very small "point source" transducer creates sounds over 180 degrees. But the transducer in a horn has a width where one side is at a half a wavelength from the other side when the sound is at an angle so the sound cancels. Sounds bouncing from side to side in a horn also cancel. Then only on-axis sounds are loud. Mid frequency sounds are concentrated straight ahead by the horn which makes them much louder than higher frequencies.

if a horn amplifies and directs all frequencies or it is used just for special frequecnies?

I showed that an PRO Altec-Lasing horn tweeter has poor high frequency response and its medium frequency sounds have amplitudes all over the place. A horn sounds like a horn (beep beep).

 

[bountyhunter]

Hi guys,

As we know the higher frequencies are much directional than the lower ones, So why most of tweeters use a horn?

Thanks

The best tweeters I ever heard are "ribbon diaphragm" type, the Infinity EMIT tweeters which are nearly omnidirectional and have bettwr HF sound than anything else I ever heard.

Klipsh popularized the horns and they do project better than a cone tweeter, but horns always sounded tinny to me. I thnk horns get into all the resonance and standing wave things.

I like the dome tweeters as well, I have a good set of those in my work room speakers.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

That is a nice speaker. My friend has a pair fed by valve amps.

 

[bountyhunter]

Electrostatic speakers?
I saw and heard two of them about 40 years ago. They produced high frequencies well but had no bass.
They use a stepup transformer that messes up sounds.

Yep, you have to have a separate woofer/sub with those.

 

[audioguru]

Yep, you have to have a separate woofer/sub with those.

QUAD electrostatic speakers were bigger than a subwoofer but produced no bass. I liked to hear them produce very high frequency sounds.

 

[bountyhunter]

Yeah, electrostats were good for high end and some mid as I recall but had no bottom end at all. No way to get a proper bass note when the transducer can't move far enough to displace the air much.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

a HORN actually amplifies the output of an emitter by providing an acoustic matching between the emitter and the air. It of course makes the output sound MORE directional than what it already was. Are you agreed? If So, here's the main question:
Why a Tweeter uses a HORN so that make the output of the horn more directional than what it already is? I think the high directivity of a tweeter is not good, so why do we need to use a horn to makes the directivity situation more critical?

As I asked before, would you sooner have one tweeter, or ten tweeters?.

The horns are designed to give a suitable dispersion pattern, it's not a problem.