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Toner Transfer Papers

Discussion in 'Circuit Simulation & PCB Design' started by mvs sarma, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    usually, the motors are synchronous, slowing them down via triac chopping heats them up and makes them stutter.
    Slowing them down via gearing is an option if u can find gears to work.
    Increasing their heat is an option for metal geared units else the gears melt and distort.

    Since most laminators have a reverse option to remove jams built in, I exploited that with the mod. to have a PCB laminator or a regular laminator function at the touch of a button.
     
  2. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi,
    We appeared to have hijacked this thread about paper. Apologies. I'll start a new thread [Toner transfer hardware options]
    Camerart.
     
  3. mvs sarma

    mvs sarma Well-Known Member

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    No issues. All of us could be happy using the procedures.
    I recently bought a roll of film negative photo-resist . i don't have the laminator and thus I would like to do it manually with temperature controlled electric iron manually .

    I haven't tried yet. i was looking for others who did. As far as toner transfer using ebay papers and HP laserjet P1007,
    My observations with ground plane have been on rough side. registration on the copper clad and pitholes etc. Can any one comment on this.
    Thanks In advance.
    regards
    sarma
    vu3zmv
     
  4. dave miyares

    Dave New Member

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  5. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    I use craft foil transfer (after the toner transfer) to eliminate the ground plane fills/pours pitting. Silver sharpie marker for manual resist touchups as well.
     
  6. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  7. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi M,
    Why is it necessary to use foil after toner transfer?
    C
     
  8. dave miyares

    Dave New Member

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  9. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    The foiling can be used for silk screen colors and professional appearance PCB labelling.
    It is also used to negate the effects of pitting caused by poor toner coverage in filled areas like ground planes as happens when your toner is getting low or you are using a non OEM Toner cartridge where the roller actaully has a micro grid pattern (reduces toner usage) rather than being smooth.
    It isn't necessary for traces up to 24 mils or so, only thicker ones.

    If you're making RF grade PCBs it is essential to maintain minimal pitting in all traces or you can get poor impedance results.
     
  10. throbscottle

    throbscottle Well-Known Member

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    I've always had ground planes with voids, not related to non-oem cartridges either. I believe it's a common problem. I always went over the large areas with a permanent marker, then touched up any other defects with an ohp pen.
     
  11. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi M,
    I'm new to toner transfer.
    I only make small projects, so I will always buy OEM toner.
    Thanks.
    C.
     
  12. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi T,
    I wonder if the voids are a laminater technique problem. I'm testing a plate pressed sandwich technique, I'll try some large area tests. [If I forget please remind me]
    C
     
  13. throbscottle

    throbscottle Well-Known Member

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    I think they are an area that needs extra attention no matter what technique you use. Negative photo has same potential issue with large copper-free areas (in the form of copper spots)
     
  14. DGM

    DGM New Member

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    Old thread, but I figured I'd add my two cents for whatever that's worth. I don't know what everyone else thinks of it, but I've been just using PNP Blue toner transfer film. I got a bunch of it for a project a few years ago, and now I have enough that I've never bothered trying other things since.

    I've used magazines, foil, PET film, and release liner from self-adhesive vinyl stock. The magazines worked okay, but I never had luck with the rest. The PNP Blue adds an extra bit of coating to the overall thickness of the transferred deposit. I get a lot less pitting of copper pours than with the magazines or any kind of toner-only transfer.

    As far as cleaning, my old board stock tends to be dirty and tarnished. I use scouring powder on it until it has a uniform matte finish and passes a water break test after a thorough rinsing. I wear nitrile gloves throughout the process to keep from making fingerprints on the fresh board.

    For the transfer, I used to have an old fuser assembly out of a laser printer, but it was really difficult to make it work uniformly. The success of the transfer is a function of heat, pressure, and time. Uneven movement in the fuser or the laminator I tried tends to result in transverse bands where it gets squished too much and isolation dimensions are reduced.

    I since made a flat, temperature controlled platen for the hydraulic press. I just throw the board on a phone book or something compliant and insulative. I've found that a moderate temperature (105°C) and a high pressure for a moderate time (maybe 10s) tend to work best. Using a lower pressure means you'll need higher temperatures and/or longer press time. Excess time and temperature means the toner will tend to flow more, and you get a lot more distortion and isolation reduction.

    Considering the amount of pressure I'm using, it's easy to see how using a clothes iron becomes impractical for anything but really small boards. To put this in perspective, if I put the platen in the drill press (as an arbor press), I'm limited to about 330-360 lbf (measured with a load cell). This is almost always insufficient total force to get reliable results.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  15. mvs sarma

    mvs sarma Well-Known Member

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    AS on date, the best thing appers to buy china mde
    thermal toner transfer papers.
    They are cheap enough.

    To still economize, you could first print on plain paper,
    cut the special transfer paper little over sized, stick it with coated sice upwards using 3M scotch sticker.
    Set you p[rinter on 600DPI with dark print modew ith paper defined as thicker paper.
    get the print.
    laminate it using domestic eletric iron carefully at its maximum temp.
    ironing time depends, experience can improve quality.
    Finally you need to peel the paper off while the copperclad is at half hot.


    Obviouslt any discontinuitys or shorts could be attended to aND THE BOARD ETCHED.

    aLL THE BEST.
     
  16. throbscottle

    throbscottle Well-Known Member

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    I have looked wistfully at PNP Blue oftentimes in the past when I was still trying to figure out the best method for my circumstances. It looks great, but it's just so expensive! They also do a paper to make silkscreen layers, and another I think but can't remember what it is now.
    Sarma I disagree about the iron temp. Obviously it varies with the printer, but I found that less than 100°C works better with my KM 2530DL, perhaps 80°C - 90°C
     
  17. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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  18. DGM

    DGM New Member

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    I chose the PNP Blue simply because I felt it had a good success-probability-to-cost ratio. By now, there are probably things on ebay at a sufficiently low price that they would've been worth a try. I'm not saying it's the best; just saying I have enough that I've no need to try anything else.

    One thing I have noticed with the PNP Blue is that it sometimes has issues because of how thin and incompressible the carrier film is. If there is any dust on the platen or scratches on the board, it tends to make skips or tiny overpressed spots. It's all easily fixed by putting a sheet or two of paper between the platen and the board, but a paper-based transfer method would have such compliance built-in.

    As a tangential benefit of negligible value, I used spent PNPB film to make a bunch of transparent legend slips for some illuminated pushbuttons. Regular transparency stock would work, but I didn't have any, and the stores only ever have that awful hazy stuff for inkjets. I just cleaned a used piece of PNPB with some xylene and washed it with detergent before printing.
     

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