Right or wrong - my country!

[Boncuk]

Let the dolphins decide this issue.... they're supposedly wiser than humans anyways!

That's a real good joke.

Dolphins have been trained as "suicide bombers" by the US Navy!

I doubt that they are any wiser than humans.

May be dolphins are less wise at war?

Boncuk

 

[bryan1]

Let the dolphins decide this issue.... they're supposedly wiser than humans anyways!

Don't go saying that too much or a dolphin might be the next one in the whitehouse, who knows that dolphin would do a heap better than any other big wig the US has ever had in power.......

 

[Boncuk]

In my opinion, those ships were about to dock at in Iraeli territory without authorisation.

Does a simple assumption justify piracy and murder? They hadn't docked anywhere!

BTW, the restricted area around Gaza was put up by Israel without UN-consultation - just about the same as extending your private borders between yourself and your neighbor into his bathroom!

The goods Israel allows to pass are well dosed - not little enough to die and not much enough to live!

Destroyed buildings are not supposed to be replaced either by repairing of constructing new ones. The fleet carried 10,000 tons of cement besides other goods.

Cement deliveries are rejected by Israel government into Gaza.

Don't you see the point? Israel wants Gaza in toto and have Israel people settle there!!

Do you see clearer now?

At present, there is no country called "Palestine".

Have you read about the Exodus of Palistene people from Palestine? I didn't. Please provide more info.

Those aboard the ships knew it. There were professional protesters aboard.

Does that still justify piracy and murder?

About the attitude "my country, right or wrong". Those are jingoist words used by some Americans during the Vietnam war, along with "America, love it or leave it". You should know the difference between the 3 levels of loyalty: Patriot, Nationalist, and Jingoist.

Again in error. That sentence was created in Great Britain long time before you saw the light of the sun. And you should know a bit more about history. The sentence is "Right or wrong, my country!"

Boncuk

 

[Boncuk]

Don't go saying that too much or a dolphin might be the next one in the whitehouse, who knows that dolphin would do a heap better than any other big wig the US has ever had in power.......

Guess who has the power in the Withehouse?

 

[HiTech]

Guess who has the power in the Withehouse?

Ummm lemme guess..... Obama's mother-in-law or maybe his wife?

 

[Boncuk]

Ummm lemme guess..... Obama's mother-in-law or maybe his wife?

If so they are just spokeswomen. They're being told by jewish Americans what they have to say!

Israel behaves like a motherless spoiled child and the world watches that bad behaviour without calling that child to orderly behaviour!

The world isn't being threatened by the "yellow danger". It's being threatened by a a maroding gang of utmost criminal elements having established their "territory" on stolen land having made others to steal it for them!

Boncuk

 

[BrownOut]

Unfortunately thats true the Jews took their land off them and ever since they are considered the illegal infidels by the legal land owners. It was on the radio news where a senior female American spokesperson made the comment ' the jews should get the hell out of Palestine and go back to Poland and Germany and leave the rightfull people to their own land'

For that comment she was banned from speaking in public again

so much for FREE SPEECH.....

America often places the interest of Israel over it's own interest. I'll never understand that. BTW, she hasn't been banned from speaking. She was fired from her job as a journalist. She had been a member of the Whitehouse press corps for 50 years and played hardball with every US persident going back to Kennedy.

 

[ghostman11]

If so they are just spokeswomen. They're being told by jewish Americans what they have to say!

Israel behaves like a motherless spoiled child and the world watches that bad behaviour without calling that child to orderly behaviour!

The world isn't being threatened by the "yellow danger". It's being threatened by a a maroding gang of utmost criminal elements having established their "territory" on stolen land having made others to steal it for them!

Boncuk

there was once another German who had similar views to you about the jews...................and as for establishing teretory on stolen land the same German did exactly that with a number of countries in europe.
but i would guess you view that as perfectly fine, afterall he was only trying to eradicate the nasty jews from the world!! wasnt like he was trying to hurt decent people is it

 

[HiTech]

BTW, she hasn't been banned from speaking. She was fired from her job as a journalist. She had been a member of the Whitehouse press corps for 50 years and played hardball with every US persident going back to Kennedy.

Well, technically she resigned, but we can pretty much surmise that she was coheirced into it (a.k.a. Your fired, you old bat!)

 

[Vizier87]

there was once another German who had similar views to you about the jews...................and as for establishing teretory on stolen land the same German did exactly that with a number of countries in europe.
but i would guess you view that as perfectly fine, afterall he was only trying to eradicate the nasty jews from the world!! wasnt like he was trying to hurt decent people is it

Doesn't look like you're going in the right direction here, dude. No offense, I'm just as opposed as anyone towards the killing of Jews those days as much as killing anybody unjustifiably. Since we are already on this topic, the cruelty of the world towards Jews back in those days can't doesn't mean that Jews can come to people's land and take over the territory because "the world has been cruel to us, so you should tolerate a bit of nonsense from us too, shouldn't you? Aww.. c'mon..." or something like that. "Us" don't mean Jews, btw, if you think I'm stereotyping Jews here.

When Germans speak about Jews, we tend to not listen because that's how it is now. If Hi-Tech or AG were to start this thread/topic, I suppose a lot of us will be more accommodating, yes? Just food for thought, if we need to be reminded on impartiality on the issue.

 

[Boncuk]

there was once another German who had similar views to you about the jews...................[/QOUTE]

Sorry, but you obviously haven't payed enough attention during history lessons. The person you're talking about is obviously Adolf Hitler, who was Austrian. He just used a tiny gap in the laws of "republic of Weimar" to become leader in Germany.

As every political leader he had to create an "enemy picture" during a crisis (depression).

That of George W. Bush was that of Saddam Hussein who he accused to possess chemical mass destruction weapons and started a war for that reason - with the result that none of those weapons were ever found in Iraq - but thousands of brave men killed.

and as for establishing teretory on stolen land the same German did exactly that with a number of countries in europe.

I guess there is a slight difference between having a country conquer land instead of having it taken away by friends and get it "served on a silver platter". They didn't even have to fight for it!

but i would guess you view that as perfectly fine, afterall he was only trying to eradicate the nasty jews from the world!! wasnt like he was trying to hurt decent people is it

Travelling through arabic countries as German you would certainly be confronted with the question: "Why didn't Germans finish them up all?" Even in Thailand I get to hear on occasion: "Hitler good, German good, why not kill all Jews?"

I admit that it was a crime killing Jews during WWII, but you should admit that it is a crime entering ships in international waters and kill persons on board of those ships.

The Vietnam debacle was no declared war. What do you suggest to call it?

Boncuk

 

[3v0]

That of George W. Bush was that of Saddam Hussein who he accused to possess chemical mass destruction weapons and started a war for that reason - with the result that none of those weapons were ever found in Iraq - but thousands of brave men killed.

What I heard from the people who where there is that Saddam had everything in place to produce chemical weapons. All the equipment and supplies were at hand. I expect this was not made public because a debate over intent would have been no better then not finding them at all.

As I recall some of these were truck mounted chemical plants.

Things are never as simple as they seem and we seldom have all the information.

The Vietnam debacle was no declared war.

Only the US congress can declare war. It is an unpopular thing to do so we have had no "declared" wars since WWII.

Obviously Vietnam was part of the much larger cold war. To look at it outside that context is nonsense.

 

[ghostman11]

Doesn't look like you're going in the right direction here, dude. No offense, I'm just as opposed as anyone towards the killing of Jews those days as much as killing anybody unjustifiably. Since we are already on this topic, the cruelty of the world towards Jews back in those days can't doesn't mean that Jews can come to people's land and take over the territory because "the world has been cruel to us, so you should tolerate a bit of nonsense from us too, shouldn't you?.

actualy i havnt commented on what israel have done!! the reason i havnt is i dont belive its right to comment on something our own countries have been guilty of themselves, it seems kind of odd that its ok to criticise what another nation does yet be ok about your own country doing it.
the examples i gave were america where they took over and nearly made the native americans exstinct!! even today the natives are treated like second class people in there own country, so i dont see it as right for an american to have a pop at israel, the uk stomped round the world building an empire and up untill relatively recently most the UK were proud of our past empire!!!! so again i dont see how people from the uk have a right to pass judgment.

I guess there is a slight difference between having a country conquer land instead of having it taken away by friends and get it "served on a silver platter". They didn't even have to fight for it!

ah i see so if israel conqured them it would be ok then?? i thought they had tried that and got blasted for it???

 

[Vizier87]

actualy i havnt commented on what israel have done!! the reason i havnt is i dont belive its right to comment on something our own countries have been guilty of themselves, it seems kind of odd that its ok to criticise what another nation does yet be ok about your own country doing it.
ah i see so if israel conqured them it would be ok then?? i thought they had tried that and got blasted for it???

No one feels right about this, about feeling ok to do this or that but to criticise others for doing so. This part is pretty obvious.
The only comments I seem to see here are the ones who think the killers of the Turks are guilty or...... they just couldn't make up their mind. But I'm sure no one wants to say they're INNOCENT. Hence the OP's post.

 

[3v0]

the examples i gave were america where they took over and nearly made the native americans exstinct!! even today the natives are treated like second class people in there own country...

First you need to know that the American Indians displaced by settlers did the same to the people who were here prior to them.

Historically, conquered people have been exterminated, displaced, or absorbed into the conquering population. For whatever reason or motivation the remaining Indians were given (crappy) land and money in the US. Some payments continue to this day. They are also making a small fortune running casinos.

Nobody is forcing them to live on the reservations. Their schools are equipped and funded far better than any non Indian school. But due to the culture it is wasted time and money. You do not need an education to drink booze and collect monthly checks from the government. If you think I am exaggerating Google for "American Indian Alcoholism".

The only assimilated Indian I know will have nothing to do with the reservation Indians. I understand this is not uncommon.

In short it is a complex issue and has little in common with your statement.

I hope things are improving for them. But at this point it seems to be up to them.

 

[ghostman11]

First you need to know that the American Indians displaced by settlers did the same to the people who were here prior to them.

Historically, conquered people have been exterminated, displaced, or absorbed into the conquering population. For whatever reason or motivation the remaining Indians were given (crappy) land and money in the US. Some payments continue to this day. .

thats my point 3v0, no one hands are clean when it comes to this kind of thing. i dont see how Israel can be criticised for what they are doing when so many nations have and will continue to do similar.
if you ask an Australian about how the native people there are treated most will say thing similar to what you said about american natives.
the Uk used to have a huge empire wich is no better, Germany tried to take all of europe, look at the Dutch and Africa.
All i am saying is Israel is doing nothing different to what many nations have done in the past and no doubt will do in the future

 

[3v0]

If we hold everyone accountable for the historical actions of their country then we all have tied hands.

In my book the current crop of government stupidities is bad enough.

The pollution thing has a similar theme. The industrialized countries polluted the planet for the past 100 years. Developing countries feel they have the same right even though we have since developed cleaner but most costly technologies.

Does history give any country the right to be wrong ?

 

[ghostman11]

no history dosnt give a country the right the do wrong but i also dont agree with the DO as SAY NOT as i DO mentality eigther. personaly i think the middle east should be left to sort itself out but thats unlikely as long as we are so relient oil

 

[HiTech]

Does history give any country the right to be wrong ?

Perhaps no, but shouldn't we humans learn to avoid the mistakes of others? Seems counterproductive for one nation to go down the same road of failure or misguidance that another did in the past. A perfect example is the US in Afghanistan. I remember another world super power that couldn't make any gains in Afghanistan, tucked tail and headed back home.

 

[3v0]

no history dosnt give a country the right the do wrong but i also dont agree with the DO as SAY NOT as i DO mentality eigther. personaly i think the middle east should be left to sort itself out but thats unlikely as long as we are so relient oil

I agree. The current oil problem is driven by greed. The people making easy money buying oil want it to continue. As I understand it the US had discovered enough oil to supply its own needs. But it is more profitable (who?) to continue with the imports.

From the little I have talked with people in the middle east most of them would like to see an end to the oil and involvement too.


@HiTech. I am in total agreement.