installing a timer switch, please help!

[mrhulala]

We have two toggle switchers at our foyer. One controls the light inside, one for outside.

I bought a leviton timer switch(something like this )

But I got nothing on the screen after connecting all the wires.

Here's the image for before/after. IF I remove wire#1, my kitchen is out of power I'm not sure what's the purpose of wire#1 in the image. Maybe that's the reason?

 

[MikeMl]

Swap the black and red wires. Blk is line in, Red is load out

 

[mrhulala]

Swap the black and red wires. Blk is line in, Red is load out

I think that's what did, but I swapped it anyway, still nothing... Now I start to think maybe this switch unit is dead? ummm

 

[MikeMl]

It is difficult to know which of the black wires are connected to 120V, and which are connected to the lamps. Do you have a mulitmeter? (AC Volts and Ohms)

 

[mrhulala]

Now I'm pretty sure it's something to do with the wire#1.

If I have the timer connected and my kitchen is out of power. If I put everything back to what it was and remove wire#1, my kitchen has no power again. Once I put #1 in, everything is back.

Wire#1 is plugged in to a small hole at the bottom of each toggle switch (back side)

 

[MikeMl]

Is either switch part of a three-way switching set up? (Two switches control one of the lights)

 

[mrhulala]

Is either switch part of a three-way switching set up? (Two switches control one of the lights)

nah, none of them are 3 way..

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Hey, the number of wires in the schematic doesn't match the pic.

Take another pic, and show the rear of the switch. Make the wires perpendicular to the back of the switch, if you can.

The white wire jumper seems out of place. Using the rear punch downs and the screws is sometimes not allowed. One or the other.
If things were "pigtailed" like they are supposed to be, this would be easier.

It looks like you have a neutral in the switchbox, which doesn't happen in my house.

Confirm that no light is controlled from two different locations.

Do you have a test light and or multimeter?

The wiring needs to be first converted to a pigtail. This will also be safer.

Since your new, I'd like to point this https://www.make-my-own-house.com/light-switch-wiring.html page out. Note, the white wire is coded black = This is a situation you don't have. None of the wires in the switches are coded black in my house. Coding black means wrap the end of the insulation with black electrical tape. Now you know what the colored electrical tape is used for.

YOU need to take one of the switches and "CONVERT" it to a "PIGTAIL". Ideally, there should be one black wire exiting the switch and it heads toward the lamp. If there are multiple lamps, then there could be multiple wires. Then there could be a bunch of black wires connected to the other terminal of the switch and these will be always hot.

So, for one, you need to find what end of the switch you can TOTALLY disconnect and still have power to your kitchen. Then take all of the wires on the other side and wire nut them together and make a pigtail. This will be your always hot lead.

My best guess, is the side of the switch with most of the wires is HOT all the time.

The other side of the switch, if it has multiple wires, it may go to multiple lights, like two or so.

So, some critical things:

1) the switches have only two screws? Assume yes
2) How many wires go to the top screw or back of the switch at the same terminal? Color? (assume black)
3) How many wires go to the bottom screw or back of the switch at the same terminal? Color? (black)
4) What does that lonely white wire do? Should it have been coded black? That's my guess. Basically, it's a hot wire, I think.
5) All of the poked in wires going to the same jumped location is probably hot all the time. One or two pigtails should have been created here. If one, then the switch could have been wired daisy chained using the holes in the back. One wire to a screw terminal.

Getting the timer and all of the wires to fit in the box is going to be tough.

There are some useful wiring devices, but I'm not sure you'll need them. One has a wirenut and a wire that comes out of the normally closed end. I like them a lot.

There is another thing I don't like about that install: Newer switches should have a ground lug. I'm not sure it's present. You are NOT allowed to rely on the screw to make the ground connection to the box, It MUST be done with a wire. (Aside: There are special switches that can be installed without the wire)

I need a better pic from the rear of the switch, preferably angled slightly so the side screws are seen.

 

[mrhulala]

Wow that's a lot of information for a newbie like me! Thanks!! I'll try to read and digest.

In the meanwhile, I took an image from the back

Hey, the number of wires in the schematic doesn't match the pic.

Take another pic, and show the rear of the switch. Make the wires perpendicular to the back of the switch, if you can.

The white wire jumper seems out of place. Using the rear punch downs and the screws is sometimes not allowed. One or the other.
If things were "pigtailed" like they are supposed to be, this would be easier.

It looks like you have a neutral in the switchbox, which doesn't happen in my house.

Confirm that no light is controlled from two different locations.

Do you have a test light and or multimeter?

The wiring needs to be first converted to a pigtail. This will also be safer.

Since your new, I'd like to point this https://www.make-my-own-house.com/light-switch-wiring.html page out. Note, the white wire is coded black = This is a situation you don't have. None of the wires in the switches are coded black in my house. Coding black means wrap the end of the insulation with black electrical tape. Now you know what the colored electrical tape is used for.

YOU need to take one of the switches and "CONVERT" it to a "PIGTAIL". Ideally, there should be one black wire exiting the switch and it heads toward the lamp. If there are multiple lamps, then there could be multiple wires. Then there could be a bunch of black wires connected to the other terminal of the switch and these will be always hot.

So, for one, you need to find what end of the switch you can TOTALLY disconnect and still have power to your kitchen. Then take all of the wires on the other side and wire nut them together and make a pigtail. This will be your always hot lead.

My best guess, is the side of the switch with most of the wires is HOT all the time.

The other side of the switch, if it has multiple wires, it may go to multiple lights, like two or so.

So, some critical things:

1) the switches have only two screws? Assume yes
2) How many wires go to the top screw or back of the switch at the same terminal? Color? (assume black)
3) How many wires go to the bottom screw or back of the switch at the same terminal? Color? (black)
4) What does that lonely white wire do? Should it have been coded black? That's my guess. Basically, it's a hot wire, I think.
5) All of the poked in wires going to the same jumped location is probably hot all the time. One or two pigtails should have been created here. If one, then the switch could have been wired daisy chained using the holes in the back. One wire to a screw terminal.

Getting the timer and all of the wires to fit in the box is going to be tough.

There are some useful wiring devices, but I'm not sure you'll need them. One has a wirenut and a wire that comes out of the normally closed end. I like them a lot.

There is another thing I don't like about that install: Newer switches should have a ground lug. I'm not sure it's present. You are NOT allowed to rely on the screw to make the ground connection to the box, It MUST be done with a wire. (Aside: There are special switches that can be installed without the wire)

I need a better pic from the rear of the switch, preferably angled slightly so the side screws are seen.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

yea, I know a lot of stuff. Thanks for the pic.

The white wire should not be there and I'll bet the switches will work fine without it. Since it is there, it pretty much defines the power side of the switch.


So, if you disconnect the other end of both switches and turn on power, I'll bet the entire kitchen will still have power.

So, what you will probably want to do is take all of the blacks (where the white wire is) and tie them together with a wirenut, with a pigtail and whatever is (HOT always) on the timer. Make sure you use the right size wirenut. Now, it will be obvious that that wire is hot all of the time. So, the pigtail goes to the switch and the (always hot of the timer) gets tied with the bunch.

Now, I think you can figure out the rest. Well almost.

I THINK I saw a threaded hole in the box, If there is one, it will accept a ground screw. IDEALLY, all of the grounds should be wirenutted together with a ground pigtail to each switch AND the box. The idea is that you don't use the box as a junction. That might be hard to do.

The switch might require a Decora plate and therefore you might have to change one of the switches to a Decora variety. I don't think you bought two timers.

RED on the timer is sometimes used for 3 way applications. That i can't tell without seeing the instructions of the switch.

I haven't installed anything in a wallswitch box that uses a neutral because the house doesn't support it. I do plan to install a UPB based switch which does require a neutral and it's there.

If i were adding any light/switch combinations and I had to run new wire, I'd use 12/3 for the feed into the switch and 12/2 to the light if power is run to the ceiling box first. Now, just about anything is possible.

When I painted a bedroom a few years ago, all of the 2 prong outlets were made 3 prong tamper-proof Decora and I put a box info low voltage stuff. the joist is drilled and a duplex plate where you can snap in whatever you want, but no wires.

 

[Brevor]

I installed some timers similar to yours at my workplace, They used batteries to power the display. Perhaps yours also needs a battery.