Hydrogen for hybrid conversions

[Pommie]

How can 10 amp at 12V produce more power? It's 120W - about the same as your headlights. A small car produces 50kW - how is 120W going to effect this?

I could understand if adding oxygen to the intake made the combustion more efficient but when the added energy is around 0.24% then I am dubious. I'm even more dubious when the added energy is produced by the same internal combustion engine.

If this worked then every motor producing company would be adding it to their vehicles. Believe me, they have checked it out.

Obviously, developing hybrids is so much cheaper than adding a Hydrogen generator. Or, it's a big conspiracy.

Mike.

 

[3v0]

I mostly agree Mike, but I am curious enough to look at what is out there.

I do not trust big business to do what is best for me.

But until I see some numbers I remain a skeptic.

 

[Pommie]

Here in Aus we have a vehicle protection system. It's endorsed by the life guard organization. It's supposed to stop your car getting corroded. It is complete bunkum. The charity gets funds, the company gets an endorsement from the charity, the public buy the product. Only one of the three parties is loosing out.

Believe me, if a car company could find the slightest reason to use this "technology" then it would already be in their advertising.

If you really believe that China, Korea, India (add whichever) play the game of "lets pretend this doesn't work" then I'm afraid you are a little (actually a lot) naive.

Mike.
BTW, did you know that the most popular bottled water in Europe was Evian - try spelling it backward.

 

[3v0]

The auto makers will do what it takes to make money. At least in the US building cars with good gas mileage has not been a top priority, building cars that the public will drive off the lot comes first. I would not look to them for breakthroughs.

 

[arrie]

3v0:
At least in the US building cars with good gas mileage has not been a top priority, building cars that the public will drive off the lot comes first.

I think things are in the process of changing in the US. US car manufacturers have been under tremendous pressure, especially from the Japanese. Ge check out their books, it shows.
Something will change, but I do not think any of them have come up with the perfect solution, that includes the Japanese and Korean guys.
Even Australia has seen a turn-around, their large cars have given way to medium sized vehicles.
The next chapter is who can get the most efficient solution first, and believe me, if a few of the American big guns do not get it right and take the lead, we may see some old brands dying off, and the one I favour looks pretty unsteady right now.
Europe is certainly setting the pace with emission and consumption regulation, forcing car makers to show their hands, hopefully work done there will overflow to other parts of the world.
We certainly need some in SA, here you can still paddle along in an 80's rust-bucket putting half burnt engine oil into the air faster than you can imagine possible.
I do not know if hydrogen based drive is our solution, there are far to many critical variables. Just my opinion. I'm not to educated about fuel cells jet, but should get to that, then we'll talk again.

 

[philba]

arrie is totally correct. What's the most in demand car is the US today? The Prius hybrid. If "parahydrogen" technology improved mileage by even 1 M/G (or .4 Km/L) the auto industry would be selling it all over the place and touting their "Greeness".

 

[arrie]

Yep,
bloody hypocrites.
Widest used motto in the world - "lets see how we can suck every free penny from the man on the street"
Rather than bringing real solutions to the table, and playing open cards about it.
I wonder how much energy Toyota spends building their pruis.

 

[Rolf]

The auto makers will do what it takes to make money. At least in the US building cars with good gas mileage has not been a top priority, building cars that the public will drive off the lot comes first. I would not look to them for breakthroughs.

After reading this I wonder if we will ever see an electric car mass produced: **broken link removed**
The oil companies don't want it to happen!

 

[mneary]

The oil companies will do just fine with electric vehicles. After all, they control the oil and gas used in much of US electricity generation.

When a company owns intellectual property such as a good patent, they aren't obligated to give it away. To the contrary they are duty bound to their shareholders to get a good price. What does your retirement fund hold? Tobacco?

 

[audioguru]

The few bubbles of HHO isn't going to make any difference for a car engine that breathes a thousand times more. Maybe on a little moped.

Back to the circuit.
The opamp in the circuit won't work:

 

[3v0]

After reading this I wonder if we will ever see an electric car mass produced: **broken link removed**
The oil companies don't want it to happen!

It is an interesting read but I did find it surprising.

As long as we use gas/Pietro engines including hybrides we are at the mercy of the international oil giants. They will raise the cost to ensure a good profit. EDIT: As mneary pointed out if they also control the electricity there is little to be done. But I do not want to start up on that again.

If you took the 120 mile per charge batteries and put them in a carbon fiber body car it could easily double, maybe triple the range. The carbon fiber body Scale Composites built for GM weighed 400 lbs, top speed 100 MPH and 100 MPG using a nothing special engine. Not 100% sure on the engine but I think I got it right. The body was very strong.

The cost of carbon fiber and most everything else should come down when mass produced.

 

[Rolf]

It is an interesting read but I did find it surprising.

{snip}

If you took the 120 mile per charge batteries and put them in a carbon fiber body car it could easily double, maybe triple the range. The carbon fiber body Scale Composites built for GM weighed 400 lbs, top speed 100 MPH and 100 MPG using a nothing special engine. Not 100% sure on the engine but I think I got it right. The body was very strong.

The cost of carbon fiber and most everything else should come down when mass produced.

Here is a video backing up you theory: YouTube - Lightweight Car Materials

But we are newer going to see it used by one of the big three, they have to much tied up in the existing steel based technology.

 

[mneary]

As pointed out in one of the referenced articles, carbon fiber (or any other non-energy related advance) will make the gas powered cars more efficient too.

The inherent inefficiency of producing and then using hydrogen will keep it behind the alternatives (methane, methanol, gasoline) for decades to come if not always. A better battery will help the electrics, which can move our energy consumption to the night time when the grid isn't stressed.

Even at that, since natural gas powers a lot of power plants (at least in California), CNG has my bet as the best alternative to gasoline in motor vehicles, for the next few decades.

 

[3v0]

What I want to see is a variety of fuels. Personally I would love to charge my electric car from a wind turbine in back yard. (both pipe dreams at present)

 

[arrie]

Now we're getting somewhere.
We need to get off brent crude (fossil fuels) as much as possible. That includes our vehicles, our power stations, whatever.
Keep in mind oil is used in manufacturing a lot more than fuel, plastics, probably large part of your carbon fibre has it, not sure, so those chaps are smiling.
And here is my conspiracy theory:
Those chaps in the middle east can use their oil to bring any country to its knees. Who will rule the earth then?
I love charging your car batteries from wind/sun power. Cars running ethanol and methanol, although what I know about the two, methanol seems like a bit of a *******, highly poisonous, enough to whack you via skin contact.
Unfortunately we do not have any ethanol/methanol or real battery cars in SA, I also have not heard of any such conversions made privately, etc. except in USA. Well done to those guys.
Fuel from garbage, according to me, there is your future, make it at your own home, fuel your car, and of you go. Develop a portable enough system, and everyone can have it, sitting in the corner of your garage, in its own room, outside under cover, whatever, our problem is solved.
I'm still looking into how clean ethanol burns, what sort of deposits it leaves, etc. but it looks way better than gasoline or diesel.
Maybe someone here knows more about it than me, but it looks good enough to pursue.

 

[audioguru]

10% of the gasoline in my part of Canada is ethanol. Maybe that is why the price of gasoline is lower than other places.
But farmers stopped harvesting wheat and instead grow corn to make the ethanol. So the cost of bread and beer went up.

 

[jpanhalt]

@audioguru: I don't like beer made from wheat. My wife does.

@arrie: They may be called fossil fuels, but our comrades in Russia don't believe petroleum comes from fossils. Some people think it is a replenishable supply from deep within earth. And considering how much hydrocarbons can be found in space and on other orbs, like Titan, I tend to believe it can't all be from fossils. At least, it has not been proven to be all or even mostly from fossils.

John

 

[3v0]

Lets do the math! subtitled - once more into the fire -

10% of the gasoline in my part of Canada is ethanol. Maybe that is why the price of gasoline is lower than other places.
But farmers stopped harvesting wheat and instead grow corn to make the ethanol. So the cost of bread and beer went up.

Using USDA numbers a bushel of wheat will make about 70 loaves of bread. The price of wheat has gone up by about $6 a bushel. That is $6/70 = 0.086. Lets be generous and call it 10 cents a loaf.

If you want to find a real culprit look at energy cost of transporting the grain to the mills, the wheat flour to the bakery, and the bread to the store.

More XXX propaganda from the oil companies??? Bald faced lies.

One could turn it around. Some are saying that without the increase in ethanol production gas prices would be much higher. It could be that your bread and beer are less expensive, not nore.

 

[audioguru]

The trucks that haul my bread and beer burn stinking smokey diesel MONEY, not clean inexpensive ethanol.

 

[arrie]

That's why we have to look at these sort of fuels (ethanol) more.
I suppose there will be a flip side to everything, but to me ethanol looks the better fuel, yet we seem to not want to change, maybe I'm missing something.
Unfortunately all products we buy is being transported using diesel, and the price of oil is being manipulated to suit certain groups of people.
On the other hand, we cannot quit producing food, to produce something to make a massive amount of fuel with, it's insane. Besides corn is NOT the best source for making ethanol, energy yield seems far to low, Brazil have proven how efficient it is to use sugar cane, but then again sugar is found in mostly everything we eat as well.
What about garbage?