Hydrogen for hybrid conversions

[dknguyen]

The Hindenburg was basically painted in jet fuel which was said to be a much bigger factor than being filled with hydrogen.

 

[arrie]

Hi Clyd3
I don't know if SA rocks when talking about alternative energy, but maybe one day we can help out. Otherwise SA has its share going for it.
I'm up in Harties - NW
3v0, do you have some documentation, or link, on this combination technology?
killivolt, can you not do it in a sticky or something, maybe ask Bryan1 or Nigel Goodwin.
I want to get involved with alternative energy, bigtime. It's just difficult to start by yourself, everything is so bloody expensive.
go well all

 

[3v0]

3v0, do you have some documentation, or link, on this combination technology?

I do not even recall where I read or heard about it. But it makes sense in that it is a combo of two things that work. The big hangup is the cell cost. A while back I seen people were working on DIY fuel cells. That is all I recall.

 

[arrie]

Bummer 3v0

I do not know too much about fuel cells myself.
Maybe I will research on it a bit and see what I can come up with.
But right now, I have way too many assignments to finish off.
I want to still experiment with stirling engines as well, see what sort of power one can get from a real world machine, not these stupid can designs.
thanks

 

[Sceadwian]

People are still trying to blame the paint! I'm sorry but a sanity check should be instated at this point! Yes, the doped paint skin could possible have aided in the initial ignition, or shortened the total combustion time by a few seconds but it wasn't more dangerous that 7 million cubic feet of hydrogen gas that the blimp held.

 

[jchunterelectric]

Thanks so much for all your imput.
The generator I am building will produce hydrogen to supplement fuel consumption. NO STORAGE. The Danger of backflash combustion is nominal as there is very little hydrogen that is not being consumed. There are two seperate flash chambers to prevent flashback. I will keep posting as I progress.
If anyone accually gives this a try let me know how it goes.
Hydrogen is one of the answeres to the global warming problem. Do some research and you will see the great potential of this alternative.

 

[3v0]

Have you found information on what frequency and duty cycle generates the most hydrogen per watt of power. Efficiency?

 

[jchunterelectric]

Have you found information on what frequency and duty cycle generates the most hydrogen per watt of power. Efficiency?

Yes the main electrodes operate at between 240KHZ to 40KHZ then the coil operates at 1/1000 of that to produce Parahydrogen. The variance is due to the throttle action.

 

[jchunterelectric]

Duty cycle of about 2:1

 

[3v0]

People are still trying to blame the paint! I'm sorry but a sanity check should be instated at this point! Yes, the doped paint skin could possible have aided in the initial ignition, or shortened the total combustion time by a few seconds but it wasn't more dangerous that 7 million cubic feet of hydrogen gas that the blimp held.

My point is/was that it is over hyped. There is more crap surrounding it then the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa or the death of JFK. To point to it as a reason not to use hydrogen is questionable at best.

**broken link removed** shows the fire burned for aprox one minute if anyone is interested. It was a slow burn comparted to explosion one sees when propane is vented form a vehicle in a closed building. I expect hydrogen does make a good fuel air explosive given the right ratio.

 

[3v0]

Yes the main electrodes operate at between 240KHZ to 40KHZ then the coil operates at 1/1000 of that to produce Parahydrogen. The variance is due to the throttle action.

This is you chance to contribute. There may be some frequency and duty cycle that returns the greatest quanity of hydrogen per unit of electricity used. Setup an experiment with a PIC and vary the frequency and duty cycle to find out what that is.

Using the TPS and mass air sensor (same as fuel injection) determine how much hydrogen is required. Use the PIC to generate the correct amount of hydrogen using bursts at the sweet frequency. You will also be able to adjuct the fuel air ratio by changing the lenght of the bursts.

I would think this has already been done.

Does a car driven with the hydrogen setup run further on a given battery charge then a electric car with the same battery ?

 

[jchunterelectric]

This is you chance to contribute. There may be some frequency and duty cycle that returns the greatest quanity of hydrogen per unit of electricity used. Setup an experiment with a PIC and vary the frequency and duty cycle to find out what that is.

Using the TPS and mass air sensor (same as fuel injection) determine how much hydrogen is required. Use the PIC to generate the correct amount of hydrogen using bursts at the sweet frequency. You will also be able to adjuct the fuel air ratio by changing the lenght of the bursts.

I would think this has already been done.

Does a car driven with the hydrogen setup run further on a given battery charge then a electric car with the same battery ?

Once the PIC is programmed can the freq be adjusted on the fly? As the RPM of the motor changes the Para/Orthohydrogen production needs to change. The idea is to use the fuel as produced.

 

[jchunterelectric]

Here is the drawing of the electrode circuit as far as I can interpret from the sketchy copy I have.

 

[3v0]

Again, Does a car driven with the hydrogen setup run further on a given battery charge then a electric car with the same battery charge ? It sort of urks me when people do not answer reasonable questions.

The schematic you posted is crude in that there is not way for the engine to adjust the quanity of hydrogen produced. Hydrogen output is fixed unless you turn the pots.

Once the PIC is programmed can the freq be adjusted on the fly? As the RPM of the motor changes the Para/Orthohydrogen production needs to change. The idea is to use the fuel as produced.

Yes. Let me try explaining.

The TPS (throttle position sensor), mass air sensor, and engine RPM can be used to determine how much fuel is required. (same as fuel injection). If you start with a fuel injected engine you could measure the percent of time the injector are active to get the same info from the computer.

Use the PIC to generate the correct amount of hydrogen (as determined above) using bursts at the sweet frequency.

You will also be able to adjuct the fuel air ratio by changing the lenght of the bursts

If you are new to uC's stick to getting the simple circuit working.

 

[jchunterelectric]

Yes. Let me try explaining.

The TPS (throttle position sensor), mass air sensor, and engine RPM can be used to determine how much fuel is required. (same as fuel injection). If you start with a fuel injected engine you could measure the percent of time the injector are active to get the same info from the computer.

Use the PIC to generate the correct amount of hydrogen (as determined above) using bursts at the sweet frequency.

You will also be able to adjuct the fuel air ratio by changing the lenght of the bursts

But for now stick to getting the simple circuit working.

Thanks for the help. I'll give it a try and let you know.

 

[3v0]

Thanks for the help. I'll give it a try and let you know.

I asked you a simple question twice and the second time it was in bold. "I do not know" is a valid answer. But please answer it.

 

[qsiguy]

The reason this technology gets bashed so much is that there are way to many scammers making huge exaggerations as to the performance and capabilities of these generators. These generators will not run the car exclusively on the gas they produce. What they will do is enhance the combustion of the fuel you are already burning which will increase efficiency. Because of this more efficient burn, the exhaust will contain additional oxygen which the O2 sensor will see telling the ECU that it's running lean and it will add fuel to compensate. You wire a circuit to the O2 sensor output that will offset it's voltage by about 100-200 mV which will tell the ECU that it needs to lean the mixture a bit. With these two mods significant gains are possible.

I didn't see the plans ever posted, maybe I missed them, but they are likely the same garbage that's floating all over the internet since someone mentioned the "coil" as part of the generator. If this is the "Hydrostar" or "HydroGen" or any other of the dozen variations of these plans for a water powered car they are bogus. I'm sure if you guys saw the electronics diagrams you'd see right away that they, for one, are not accurate. The generator itself is highly inefficient.

I have build several of these generators and my current model will produce approx. 1.2 liters/min of hydrogen/oxygen gas at only 10 amps and that's only running part of the generator. This is plenty of gas to make a difference in the combustion of the fuel and at a low enough amperage to not place a high load on the vehicles electrical system. Many of the systems being sold will claim 2, 3, 4, or more liters/min of gas and most are false claims. Some will produce decent amounts of gas but at 20+ amps which is just to much of a load and it will eat up any potential gains.

 

[3v0]

qsiguy:
Is there a forum where I can learn more about this? Like most everyone else I would like to squeeze a bit more out of each gallon. You have my interest.

 

[jchunterelectric]

This is you chance to contribute. There may be some frequency and duty cycle that returns the greatest quanity of hydrogen per unit of electricity used. Setup an experiment with a PIC and vary the frequency and duty cycle to find out what that is.

Using the TPS and mass air sensor (same as fuel injection) determine how much hydrogen is required. Use the PIC to generate the correct amount of hydrogen using bursts at the sweet frequency. You will also be able to adjuct the fuel air ratio by changing the lenght of the bursts.

I would think this has already been done.

Does a car driven with the hydrogen setup run further on a given battery charge then a electric car with the same battery ?

Sorry for the delay answering. The "hydrogen setup" is not a stand alone setup, it is just a suplement to the fuel system allready in place on the vehicle. To answere your question though I don't know. However I have to believe that because of the potential energy of the hydrogen that the use of battery power would be more effectively used breaking apart the water molocule than trying to push a motor. I need to say here that a conventional internal combustion engine designed to run on gas or diesel would get too hot on hydrogen alone. However it is my intention to change some of the components for example the head, exhaust manifold, valves etc. to be able to withstand the higher temps.

 

[jchunterelectric]

The reason this technology gets bashed so much is that there are way to many scammers making huge exaggerations as to the performance and capabilities of these generators. These generators will not run the car exclusively on the gas they produce. What they will do is enhance the combustion of the fuel you are already burning which will increase efficiency. Because of this more efficient burn, the exhaust will contain additional oxygen which the O2 sensor will see telling the ECU that it's running lean and it will add fuel to compensate. You wire a circuit to the O2 sensor output that will offset it's voltage by about 100-200 mV which will tell the ECU that it needs to lean the mixture a bit. With these two mods significant gains are possible.

I didn't see the plans ever posted, maybe I missed them, but they are likely the same garbage that's floating all over the internet since someone mentioned the "coil" as part of the generator. If this is the "Hydrostar" or "HydroGen" or any other of the dozen variations of these plans for a water powered car they are bogus. I'm sure if you guys saw the electronics diagrams you'd see right away that they, for one, are not accurate. The generator itself is highly inefficient.

I have build several of these generators and my current model will produce approx. 1.2 liters/min of hydrogen/oxygen gas at only 10 amps and that's only running part of the generator. This is plenty of gas to make a difference in the combustion of the fuel and at a low enough amperage to not place a high load on the vehicles electrical system. Many of the systems being sold will claim 2, 3, 4, or more liters/min of gas and most are false claims. Some will produce decent amounts of gas but at 20+ amps which is just to much of a load and it will eat up any potential gains.

Finaly someone who has actually tried this.
Thanks so much for your imput.
What is the increased milage you have been able to achive?