Electric fence doesn't work?

[zachtheterrible]

It would be a good idea to include an automatic shut-off ciruit so that it gives whoever touches it a chance to react and jump away. Otherwise it might seize their muscles and they would be stuck to the fence possibly.

 

[spindrah]

It would be a good idea to stop with this bad idea!

 

[teslatower]

i would advise you to look into the legal part of this before you run it . . . just to make sure 8)

Have you every asked the kids not to cross your property? If you have and they didn't listen, ive gotta admit it would be very satisfying to watch the kids jump out of their skin when they get shocked :twisted:

Zach, I must say I like your personality. You're a good sport. Your replies (including the ones I didn't quote) have been not only slightly informative but humorous! Regarding pure legality, this is Texas! This is the state where you CAN legally SHOOT SOMEONE DEAD just for being on your property after dark! Hmmmm.... maybe I need to grab a timer from Wal-Mart so the fence only operates after dark?

And Bryan, thanks for the schematic; I shall study it further, although I already have questions about T1.

 

[bryan1]

Eh Tesla,
PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF WHAT WE ARE SAYING Don't in anyway put any amperage thru the wire. That schematic I put up before works off 12 volts DC not AC and only draws 190mamps from the supply. It puts out 3.6 Kilovolts but no amps. I've got bore goats and where I have the electric fence they wont go near it after touching it.
Just take note of what we are saying we are trying to help you not get you on a manslaughter charge.

Cheers Bryan

 

[Roboticinfo]

reply

You would kill a person?

If you didn't check how many amps you made that electric fence you could kill somebody.

Why don't you get a multimeter and see what is coming out of it because you are risking people life just for going on your property.

 

[teslatower]

Eh Tesla,
PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF WHAT WE ARE SAYING Don't in anyway put any amperage thru the wire. That schematic I put up before works off 12 volts DC not AC and only draws 190mamps from the supply.

No worries, Bryan. I _have_ taken note. Well I have just started to now anyway.

Now about your design: Is this 190mA only in the rest state.... what's the current draw when someone is being shocked to near death? I only ask so I know what kind of power supply to feed it with. It it needs more current when the cooker is on, I want to make sure my power supply delivers it!

It puts out 3.6 Kilovolts but no amps.

Well that must be impossible. If you are causing someone to convulse, then you are using energy. And energy of course necessitates amps in this case. (Unless you believe in that zero-point stuff.)

On a related note, I'm skeptical of claims such as "oh, 0.xx mA will kiill!". In reality it all depnds on timing, most specifically with respect to the refractory period of the heart. Roll of the dice... perhaps quantum mechanics could predict the exact probability, but physicians will tell you there is no amperage across the heart which will definitely kill or not kill. Why do you think there are so many Taser-related deaths? (Albeit a low percentage.) Certainly their circuits are more "safe" than cow fences, no?

-just an igiot from down south

 

[Roboticinfo]

reply

Why don't you touch the fence first to see if it kills if you are so skeptical of 1 amp killing you.

 

[bryan1]

Hi Again Tesla,
Ok mate here's a photo( taken wiff my nu digi camera ) of the fence controller I made as you can see it uses a dump capacitor to deliver the charge. This circuit is designed to send out a pulse every second. Now I bought this project as a kit from Dick Smiths here in Oz about 2 years ago, as it's a discontinued kit I don't think you can get it anymore but I can photocopy the entire instructions which has a circuit board layout along with full construction details. If you want me too I'll do it but it will cost a bit to source all the parts.

Cheers Bryan

 

[teslatower]

Re: reply

Why don't you touch the fence first to see if it kills if you are so skeptical of 1 amp killing you.

Light side: I'd be glad to touch my fence, so long as a more posterior portion of my arm was touching the chain link. Although I'm sure I'd get knocked on my behind.

Answer: That's not what I said. I never said that 1A wouldn't or couldn't kill you. What I said or implied was that I reject statements that say you WILL be killed by 0.xx mA across the heart. I would extend this statement to 10mA also, etc, not just 0.xx. It is not inconceivable to imagine the risk as an exponential function: From 0.05mA to 0.10mA your risk may double, but from 1A to 2A there is very little difference. Again, I was adressing the doomers-and-gloomers that like to say that e.g. 0.10mA means instant death. And this is simply not the case even when applied directly to the heart.

 

[Oznog]

Dont worry Oznog! I took most all of the suggestions mentioned here and now Im back from the store and everythings assembled and safe.

I am unsure if you are a writing this as a prank- which if so, ok, it's funny- or not.

In case you're for real, the new scenario you describe is still quite lethal and an extreme fire hazard, anything but safe. You plain do not have the knowledge and neither do your folks supplying your hardware. The only possibility- and this is cheap and easy so I don't understand your problem- is a commercial electric fence controller. And this is coming from an electronics wacko, not a guy obsessed with everything being up to government specifications.

I am in Austin, Texas and this does not even fall under self defense, it is a "man trap". That's a semiofficial term which equates it to the a tripwire shotgun or land mine. These present inherent risks to any lawful as well as unlawful persons in the area. Perhaps your place catches fire when you're out of town and firemen are working to save your property. Lawsuits are only one issue- they can straight put you away for doing something like this, perhaps rightly so.

 

[bryan1]

Ok here's the details from an osciliscope showing the various waveforms and tesla it does only draw 190 milliamp off 12 volts as it only driving basic circuitry the punch is in the second stage as this will show below

 

[teslatower]

Here's a photo( taken wiff my nu digi camera ) of the fence controller I made

Thanks Bryan! Man, that capacitor looks even smaller than the standard one that I use to drive my littly power supplies! Certainly nothing prohibitively expensive here. I think I shall build one, although I don't like the 1s thing. I realize the importance of a duty cycle that lets people escape, but that's too long... I will adjust slightly.

BTW in your schematic, what is T1 and the other one sharing the same symbol? That one with 2x turns on the secondary? Sure hate to see you have to diagram one with not such a pretty ratio.

But anyway, you never did (I don't think?) say if, and how much, more current it consumes when someone's being nuked. I guess that's for obvious reasons... lack of a subject to get executed! No matter, I suppose, I can calculate from the schematic you were nice enough to provide! Thanks again for that one; got it saved.

[Edit: Sheesh where'd ya get that detailed data? N/m, I'll take it at face.]

 

[bryan1]

Eh Tesla,
That deailed data came straight out the construction details. Later tonight if I have time I'll scan the construction details, zip them up and post them here for you and anybody else that wants them. This project was designed by one of the guru's from siliconchip back in 2000 I think (can't find the mag) but you might get lucky looking on www.siliconchip.com.au

Cheers Bryan

 

[teslatower]

I am in Austin, Texas and this does not even fall under self defense

But shooting a lost civilian wandering onto your property after dark is? Perhaps. In this forum I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong. But that is the Texas law as I understand it. However, as you point out:

It is a "man trap". That's a semiofficial term which equates it to the a tripwire shotgun or land mine.

This has definite legal merit.

And a firm foundation in history, even without your firefighter example (arguably a good one, BTW). Plus most all states have laws against such unattended lethal force. (My original home state is one.) I did not know Texas was one of them, however. I've no choice but to concede defeat on the legal merits at the very least.

You did say you didn't know if my response to you was in jest. I submit to you: Does it matter? R2-D2 had a good laugh over there. I (and every subsequent visitor in need) got a good schematic for an elecitric fence controller. We all learned something about Texas law. Some of us learned what _not_ to do with electric fences. Even now in this thread it's open for discussion whether a given current will kill, and if bryan's fence circuit will consume any more power when a body is actually being shocked.

 

[captainkirksdog]

I hope you can afford a REALLY GOOD ATTORNEY!

 

[pike]

invest in a dog, it doesn't have to be a big one, you could just use it's poop as a trap. They'll know not to come jump the fence and land in a brown pile ever again.

Keep in mind, none of us are legally binded to these teenagers deaths just becuase we posted in this thread. your on your own.

 

[zachtheterrible]

Zach, I must say I like your personality. You're a good sport. Your replies (including the ones I didn't quote) have been not only slightly informative but humorous!

Thanks :lol: I try.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever talked to the kids to tell them to quit? That just might solve the whole problem. There have been a few threads in which someone wants an electronic means to solve the problem, but he could just go over and talk to the person to possibly solve the problem. Now if that person is bullheaded and won't listen, I would condone non-lethal force :lol:

 

[moody07747]

now im confused :?

at work (im an electrician) i have gotten shocked a few times on 15 amp circuits

so why am i still here and not dead?

 

[Roboticinfo]

reply

It is his choice what to do, but electricty is not a thing to play with if you know barley anyhting about it like him.

This is a project for someone that has a lot of expierence in electronics and not a beginner that thinks wiring a wire to his mains and connecting it to a poll.

Hello?

What were you thinking didn't you know that electricty can kill you?

 

[Oznog]

now im confused :?

at work (im an electrician) i have gotten shocked a few times on 15 amp circuits

so why am i still here and not dead?

'cause it's rated to supply at most 15 amps without overheating the wires. The circuit breaker will even allow surges of many times that. But, current depends on load.

I've measured dry skin as 3 megaohms or so without strong pressure and only minor contact area. So on a 120v circuit you'd pull only 40 microamps. And that still hurts like the dickens! Damp skin (sweat included) and/or large contact area can greatly reduce the resistance though, resulting in proportionally large currents.