Chinese crap

[Reloadron]

I don't know what calculations he's talking about reload, but the values you listed seem a litte weird. You should be able to get a decent power supply that can do 30amps on the 12V rail(s) for under 200 easy.
You'd have to hunt for a brand name you like but just one example I found on new egg has 4 12 volts rails each able to source 18 amps (that's 72amps, hopefully I didn't miscalculate it for $110

Ah, I get it now, here is what I said:

A good well built switching PSU for 12 volts only capable of 30 amps typically runs over $200 USD so go figure.

When I said well built switching PSU for 12 volts only I was getting at or referring to non-ATX power supplies that are American built, nothing to do with ATX PSUs but commercial power supplies like some of these. The Cosel model PAA33F-12 is a 12 volt 27 amp power supply. That supply meets or exceeds a variety of safety standards as well as EMI compliance standards. The thing has a price tag around $482 USD. There are plenty of similar ones out there in the $350 range lacking the DC input features. Sorry for any confusion on what I was getting at.

So yes, you can buy a cheap ATX PSU for $29.95 or an expensive ATX PSU for over $100 or so USD that deliver well in excess of 30 amps on the 12 volt rail(s) but those were not what I was getting at. My bad on any induced confusion factor.

Ron

 

[tytower]

Frosty you seem to be under some weird mistaken assumption that the FCC certifies a device to be safe which is absolutely not the case at all, they certify it for it's ability to withstand and not produce interference under common electrical conditions.

You're much like the typical American consumer, assuming that a logo on a device means it's a quality safe product. Keep in mind as well with CE certified stuff, as said previously many Chinese companies will simply slap the logo their products even if they haven't gone through certification.

I think the consumer has a right to assume if its tested by the FCC it is safe to use .
If they only check for interference then they need to be dramatically expanded to put an electrical safety check in there too.

Everybody who is not an amateur radio operator would assume the device safe to use if it has FCC approval

 

[Sceadwian]

You're paying for the certification and design considerations reload, the confusion factor was definitely bad because that has NOTHING to do with Chinese made ATX supplies. They don't make certified supplies like you're talking about, it's apples and oranges. The supply you're talking about is certified against dangerous harmonics, 5 safety certifications and 4 EMI certifications! All of which you can statements of certification of it need be.

 

[3v0]

Maybe people are confusing the FCC with UL (Underwriters Laboratory)

UL has developed more than 1,000 Standards for Safety. Our Standards for Safety are essential to helping ensure public safety and confidence, reduce costs, improve quality and market products and services. Millions of products and their components are tested to UL's rigorous safety standards with the result that consumers live in a safer environment than they would have otherwise.

 

[Sceadwian]

I think the consumer has a right to assume if its tested by the FCC it is safe to use.

It's not about what you think, this is the real world here.

The FCC is for radio frequency interference and transmission, it's not at ALL related to electrical safety standards in any way shape or form. Your decision that they should be responsible is irrational.

Everybody who is not an ameture radio operator would assume the device safe to use if it has FCC approval

Anyone that assumes such doesn't know anything about certifications, it's about trust and traceability. If you think that an FCC logo means electrically safe you're delusioned from the start. CE certification means a bit more but that's a European standard. UL certification is a big one in the US, and even if the device carries all of these logo's it does not mean that the device is safe. You can't protect against stupid user and a random circumstances.

 

[Reloadron]

You're paying for the certification and design considerations reload, the confusion factor was definitely bad because that has NOTHING to do with Chinese made ATX supplies. They don't make certified supplies like you're talking about, it's apples and oranges. The supply you're talking about is certified against dangerous harmonics, 5 safety certifications and 4 EMI certifications! All of which you can statements of certification of it need be.

Exactly, there was supposed to be an analogy in there somewhere. Anyway you nailed this way back in the beginning:

Unfortunately the only person to blame in this type of situation is the person that bought the item. These is no one to sue because there is no warranty or certification to a particular purpose, even if you could find the maker, there is no lemon law with new products, if they don't claim in black and white signed in blood that it will last more than 30 seconds it doesn't have to. If there is any mentioned warranty on the product I'm sure the customer support will sap the will to live out of any human being, if you can even find a contact number. If you pay a lot for this kind of crap, again it's caveat emptor, assume anything and it makes an ass out of u and me =) Anything to save a buck will get you this type of product, it gets us Americans literally boatloads of it, the reason so many buy it is because so many people don't pay attention to what they buy and assume a purchase will fit a need.

This same subject has come up before and you pretty much said the same thing. Hell, it's like why does so much cheap and dangerous stuff pour in from China? Because it can and because people buy it creating a market for it. Hell, you nailed it perfectly.

Now if my lousy analogy sucked we can arrange for a crucifixion.

Now does anyone have the email address for the FCC so I can complain about some electrical safety issues?

Ron

 

[tytower]

We don´t need the insults thanks

The point is if something is certified by a Federal body consumers generally will assume they mean certified to be safe to use .
I know damn well that that´s not what it means but millions assume it does mean safety

I wonder if the OP could reduce the size of photos before uploading.
The first took me about 30 seconds to view and I did not go further because of that.
I don´t have the download speed or capacity to waste

 

[Sceadwian]

S'okay Ron, I'll let my nails rust for the next person, I'll sharpen them to help reduce the initial impact =)

The point is if something is certified by a Federal body consumers generally will assume they mean certified to be safe to use.

When it's certified from the FCC it is, for radio frequency use and non interference... Have you even read any of these standards?

What you're saying is the equivalent to someone putting a sign on a door that says 'beware of person behind door' as being a justification for murder if someone opens it except in the opposite extreme. The FCC certifies for RF interference and acceptance of interference, that is all. If you want to stick your finger in the power outlet of an FCC certified device and want to sue the FCC because someone was seriously harmed.. you really have some mental readjustments to make.

 

[ben7]

S'okay Ron, I'll let my nails rust for the next person, I'll sharpen them to help reduce the initial impact =)

When it's certified from the FCC it is, for radio frequency use and non interference... Have you even read any of these standards?

What you're saying is the equivalent to someone putting a sign on a door that says 'beware of person behind door' as being a justification for murder if someone opens it except in the opposite extreme. The FCC certifies for RF interference and acceptance of interference, that is all. If you want to stick your finger in the power outlet of an FCC certified device and want to sue the FCC because someone was seriously harmed.. you really have some mental readjustments to make.

Why are you always grumpy!???

 

[tytower]

Yes . I hadn´t seen this post. I think he is a bit of a nutter so let him get on with it. I have made my point and I´m a full call

 

[Reloadron]

Why are you always grumpy!???

Sceadwian grumpy? Obviously you have him confused with another forum member.

I believe that Sceadwian was just making a point that different agencies within the US Government are tasked with different responsibilities and draw up different guidlines of compliance for manufactured products. The mission of the FCC is not to ensure consumer safety and I think that was his point.

Interesting enough is that UL (Underwriters Laboratories) who seem to be globally accepted for safety standards isn't an agency of the US Government.

Standards for Safety
UL has developed more than 1,000 Standards for Safety. Our Standards for Safety are essential to helping ensure public safety and confidence, reduce costs, improve quality and market products and services. Millions of products and their components are tested to UL's rigorous safety standards with the result that consumers live in a safer environment than they would have otherwise.

The US Government does have the Consumer Product Safety Comission which can be found here. and of course there is the Food and Drug Administration making sure your beanies and weenies are bug free and your meds are user friendly.

Sceadwian's point was merely that the FCC is not a federal agency mandated with any consumer safety task. He was just being factual.

Ron

 

[HiTech]

Maybe people are confusing the FCC with UL (Underwriters Laboratory)

Perhaps the posters here are thinking of the FTC , not the FCC. As for UL there's UL Listed and UL Approved. Approved items are far more worthy of safety than "listed" items. Listed means they are registered and meet basic specs. without ever being subjected to actual UL testing process. A vast majority of items in the USA are now UL Listed instead of Approved. I think the last time I saw a UL Approved items was my Mom's Electrolux vacuum sweeper of 1970 vintage!

 

[Reloadron]

Ah yes, our friends ate the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) who have a consumer protection division which can be found here.

Ron

 

[Sceadwian]

ben and ty. The two of you have no clue what a sense of humour looks like do you? =)

 

[ben7]

I really think that all these "protection agencies" don't really do anything except increase our taxes

Say, UL says this about cfl end of life:

" The light dims over time and might produce a more dramatic pop, emit a distinct odor, and maybe even release some smoke," said Drengenberg."

Smoke = high temp = fire very likely

REALLYYYYYY???????????????????????????????????????

-Ben

 

[ben7]

ben and ty. The two of you have no clue what a sense of humour looks like do you? =)

Ohhh, I do; but this thread is serious!

-Ben

 

[ben7]

Perhaps the posters here are thinking of the FTC , not the FCC.

How many protection agencies are there!!!

PS: never heard of the FTC!

-Ben

 

[Sceadwian]

smoke = high temp = fire very likely

You apparently know little of flammable substances and the risks associated with them.
I work around 10-25 gallons of solvent in a wash station every day, the risk is so low it's not more than a careless person with a lighter and a wad of cotton.. Toss a lit match into our solvent tanks and it'll go out.

This thread isn't THAT serious, it's just full of people that think it is.
I mean seriously, thinking this crap is that important is the first sign you're out of your mind.

 

[ben7]

I mean seriously, thinking this crap is that important is the first sign you're out of your mind.

BLAH!

I'm talking about DANGEROUS crap!

I've had enough of this arguing!

 

[Reloadron]

Anytime you have the federal government involved in consumer safety it generally involves protecting people from themselves. You can also expect considerable redundancy and bureaucracy in things also. The government induces a fear factor than we thank them for protecting us at all cost.

I appreciate the government telling me that going on a two week vacation and leaving several CFL bulbs made in China burning as night lights in my home is unwise. I would never have figured that out on my own.

Also, as winter sets in here in NE Ohio, USA I should not move my outdoor Bar B Que indoors to make heat. Also, as Thanksgiving approaches here in the US it is unwise to try to use a turkey fryer inside the house or my garage. Thank God for those warnings they make sure I am aware of.

So much for the topic...

Ron