Bad news (School Cuts)

[Krumlink]

We just found out that the programming and hardware class has been cut. It is stupid, because our schools value sports over education, they hardly even recognize our robotic teams. They really dont give a **** about technology or anything that you can really depend on, all they care about is sports. God damnit.

 

[Pommie]

That is sad to hear. Schools should be encouraging this sort of stuff. Hope they re-evaluate.

Mike.

 

[Jay.slovak]

I am not a sports guy, so such idea sounds stupid to me. Luckily for me my school prefers education over sports, I don't even think we have an official sports team...

 

[dknguyen]

That sucks. I was told by some a professor that when he was in the US, all schools ever talked about was sports and this team and that team and making it to the finals etc. THen he said he came over here and no one cares, or knows about the school team (sometimes not knowing it exists!).

It doesn't necessarily mean we suddenly acknowledge the robotics team that much more, but it also probably means that funding isn't reallocated for sports.

WHen I was in junior high, my electronics class was cancelled because universities felt it was infringing on their territory.

 

[3v0]

This is a what is know as a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY.

Pick up where the school left off.

I am sure your school allows clubs to us the classrooms after hours. Find a willing victim to teach you what you want to learn as part of a robotic club.

If you need funds try contacting the people who supported the First Competition. Perhaps other businesses in the area would be willing to pitch in.

The first step would be to get the interested students and faculty together to form the club. Then inform the school of what you want do and persuade them not to dump all the tools and materials in a dumpster.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

The first step would be to get the interested students and faculty together to form the club. Then inform the school of what you want do and persuade them not to dump all the tools and materials in a dumpster.

This is good advice. Truth will out, so don't waste time trying to prove the lack of value in your school's sports teams - you certainly won't make friends that way. Use that energy instead to prove what's valuable in what you want to do. It's easier to do that by finding students and teachers that hold common interests with you. Get them together, and your case for what you want to do suddenly gets much stronger. Hold back from being outwardly critical of what you might perceive as conflicting interests, people are less likely to align themselves with someone who's bitter, critical, or otherwise prone to inflammatory speech or activity.

Prove the intrinsic merits of what you want to do, in exclusive terms. Don't get caught in a value-by-comparison argument - there's no way to win a discussion about things over which you at best can only know half the details (i.e. how can you inform a value judgment on sports, not knowing anything about sports? Just because they might do something along those lines vice-versa doesn't make it the right way, or the best way, to do things).

The bolded text in 3v0's quote shouldn't be taken lightly. Because it's very hard for teachers/admin to sell school property, unfortunately every now and then apathetic-people-in-charge say, "Well, it's useless to us now... throw it in the trash!" It's a stupid part of the system that ought to be addressed in more detail, but until then, only the more attentive of us will have to say, "Wait, there might be some use for that in the future."

 

[Salgat]

My old High School, which is also in Michigan, cut their Electronics Program the past year. Seems like High Schools are more concerned with core classes such as math and english.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

My old High School, which is also in Michigan, cut their Electronics Program the past year. Seems like High Schools are more concerned with core classes such as math and english.

It'll all swing round again - in the UK the Government dropped Music a few years ago in schools, then they suddenly noticed a sharp lack of musicians, so reinstated it - but where do you find music teachers all of a sudden?.

Likewise cookery was effectively banned in schools, apparently too dangerous? - so cookery lessons consisted of planning healthy menus, and no actual cooking. Many schools re-allocated the cookery rooms to other uses, and scrapped all the equipment. Lo and behold, the Government have noticed no one can cook any more! - so they are bringing it back again - but there are no teachers, and no class rooms!.

Typical governments, don't have a clue how to run anything!.

Big thing at the moment is boys vs. girls, girls outperform boys considerably in the younger years, so the government are trying to get boys up to the same level as the girls. Anyone who has ever seen a child knows full well that girls develop faster than boys - not to mention the boys kick footballs about and punch each other in the playground.

 

[jpanhalt]

Just compare the salaries of football and basketball coaches at any large American university (NCAA div. 1) to the salaries of tenured professors in science or even medicine. You will see the foolishness and appreciate the completely wrong message it gives. Coaches salaries are in the millions of USD. What percentage of their "student athletes" graduate? John

 

[Salgat]

The likely reason they pay these coaches so much is due to competition to win your school the best coach. These coaches can lead a school into a successful season, reaping millions of dollars for the school.

 

[jpanhalt]

These coaches can lead a school into a successful season, reaping millions of dollars for the school.

Show me the data. That is, compare athletic program income and total costs of a high-priced coach/team with one that is not so high priced. Are universities supposed to be the farm clubs for professional sports, or are they for education?

A good part of the salary competition is hype and hysteria. For example, a few years ago, the new president of a prestigious medical school was faced with increasing demands from the cardiovascular surgeons. Their argument was basically, "look at how much money we bring in." The school was being bankrupted. The new president said, OK, let's look at the NET profit. Of course, he showed that the surgeons were costing the school lots of money when all costs were considered.

There are plenty of ways to have farm clubs in basketball and football. I think it is a perversion of our educational system at the university level to use tax money to support athletic programs and rich coaches, some with graduation rates of less then 20%.

John

 

[Salgat]

If you can show me that the top Universities who are paying millions of dollars for coaches are not making profits off their football program, then I will gladly agree with you.

 

[jpanhalt]

If you can show me that the top Universities who are paying millions of dollars for coaches are not making profits off their football program, then I will gladly agree with you.

That's not my point at all. There are a lot of NFL football teams that make money, but they don't give bachelor degrees to their players in return. I also don't pay taxes to support the NE Patriots or Detroit Lions.

Universities in general and the land grant universities in particular were created to provide education to the citizenry and are tax supported and/or tax advantaged (i.e., tax exempt). I think the priorities implicit in that purpose and which justify the tax support are clearly misplaced when football coaches make $2MM per year and tenured professors in academic departments, including the arts, history, physics, math, etc. may get $100K per year.

My points were:

1) Should universities be involved in for-profit activities devoid of any material educational mission?

And,

2) Despite that reservation, is the net profit from football/basketball in those universities with the highest paid coaches proportionately greater than the profit from football/basketball by similar universities with less highly paid coaches?

Least I be misunderstood, I do not object to active athletic programs. They can do a great deal for school spirit, pride, attract better students, and foster health awareness. They are part of education in the US.

The old joke that academic support is provided to the extent needed so the football team won't be embarrassed has a kernel of truth behind it. My concern is that the relative emphasis put on sports at some schools seems to be getting out of proper proportion.

John

 

[things]

Yeah, my school is kinda like that. People would be in a science class and go "This is boring, can we go outside and play sport" or something like that. Keep in mind though, if the schools stop teaching things like electronics, in the future a person that can do those sorts of things will be bringing in lots of money, whereas there will be millions of coaches, and less salaries, since the demand is lower.

 

[quixotron]

It'll all swing round again - in the UK the Government dropped Music a few years ago in schools, then they suddenly noticed a sharp lack of musicians, so reinstated it - but where do you find music teachers all of a sudden?.

Likewise cookery was effectively banned in schools, apparently too dangerous? - so cookery lessons consisted of planning healthy menus, and no actual cooking. Many schools re-allocated the cookery rooms to other uses, and scrapped all the equipment. Lo and behold, the Government have noticed no one can cook any more! - so they are bringing it back again - but there are no teachers, and no class rooms!.

Typical governments, don't have a clue how to run anything!.

Big thing at the moment is boys vs. girls, girls outperform boys considerably in the younger years, so the government are trying to get boys up to the same level as the girls. Anyone who has ever seen a child knows full well that girls develop faster than boys - not to mention the boys kick footballs about and punch each other in the playground.

well i agree that cutting the elcronics program is a damn shame. but music is worthless so yeah that should be cut. but anyways i agree with what 3VO said earlier. he needs to contact local businesses and ask for some classroom time after school.

 

[dknguyen]

Music's not worthless. Do you know how hard the musicians in fine arts have to work to get in and stay there? Probably harder than anyone else on campus. You can half-ass your way through a lot of programs (like most academic degrees, engineering included- it's called cramming and some people are very very good at it) but anyone who is in music is downright dedicated.

I used to think like that too until I actively pursued playing an instrument. I still hold the same opinion about drawing artists though.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Music's not worthless. Do you know how hard the musicians in fine arts have to work to get in and stay there? Probably harder than anyone else on campus. You can half-ass your way through a lot of programs (like most academic degrees, engineering included- it's called cramming and some people are very very good at it) but anyone who is in music is downright dedicated.

I used to think like that too until I actively pursued playing an instrument. I still hold the same opinion about drawing artists though.

Like all the people here posting wanting their homework or coursework doing for them - can't do that for a music exam!.

My daughter's currently doing A level 'Music Technology', this includes Midi sequencing, studio sound recording etc. - basically the technology behind modern music. I don't 'think' you have to be able to play an instrument?, but it's a big advantage - because you've got to write music, rearrange existing songs in different styles, and record them. So if you can't play yourself, then you have to arrange for someone else to play on the recordings for you - which isn't always easy.

Melissa's got a big advantage (which is why she's top of the class), as she's already a qualified recording engineer, she reads music, and she plays six+ instruments. Her friend Charlie (guitarist in her band) is second in the class, he's also a qualified recording engineer, but doesn't read music, and probably plays four+ instruments.

I don't think the course is living up to their expectations though, as it's far too slow for them - with the rest of the class struggling somewhat.

 

[3v0]

Music's not worthless. Do you know how hard the musicians in fine arts have to work to get in and stay there? ...

I used to think like that too until I actively pursued playing an instrument. I still hold the same opinion about drawing artists though.

Perhaps is you learned to draw, paint, an or sculpt.

 

[dknguyen]

Perhaps is you learned to draw, paint, an or sculpt.

Perhaps! But I am an imperfect person.

 

[UTMonkey]

I agree with Nigel, the latest recommendation from our Education wizards in the UK is that every child should receive a dose of "Culture" education - bring on Music\Art\Drama!

I have always been interested in classical guitar and always been interested in electronics (even when I was at school)

I am 37 now, I started guitar lessons at 19 and have now only just started electronics. Why didn't the UK education system support these interests?

But I suppose hearing the comments in this thread it is only good if it can be sustained.

better to have and to have lost? nope!

Mark