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New to PIC'S and programming???

Discussion in 'Microcontrollers' started by shaneshane1, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. futz

    futz Active Member

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    Umm... That's $63 Canuck bucks, so not quite so bad. The chip itself is a measly four bucks by itself. They're charging pretty good for the rest of the parts.
     
  2. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    I'm not sure what you get, but all you need to is buy the chip, make your own lead, and download the free software.
     
  3. Leftyretro

    Leftyretro New Member

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    Yes, slower compared to ASM or compiled code, but running at the default 4mhz they spec it at 1,000 basic commands per sec.

    The 28X and 40X chips (both $12 chips) are rated to hold 1,000 lines of basic and can be overclocked to 16 or 20mhz using an external resonator or crystal for 4,000+ commands per sec. The X chips have built in basic commands for the PIC hardware supported serial comm, I2C, SPI as well as built in software support for Sony remote IR, PWM, servo support. They also support an interrupt capability.

    All in all a beginner can spend a lot of time exploring and learning a lot before out growing this series. They only have to learn one software package, the program editor.

    Best bang for the buck, best chance for initial successes with least amount of outside help. I do feel it's the state of the art starter system for new comers.
    Lefty
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. shaneshane1

    shaneshane1 New Member

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    Well im so use to putting pulldown resistors on my IC'S inputs to keep them low (0) that i thought i would have to do the same for the PIC?
     
  6. gramo

    gramo New Member

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    AXE... gah...


    Hmm, I see where your heading - but AXE chips are simply bundled PIC's and are heavily nerfed in some aspects.

    2 Options for setup costs of a PIC (USD)

    Option 1 (DIY from the PIC device and upwards);

    PICKit 2 $34.95 (Programmer)
    Breadboard $3
    A PIC Micro $4
    1 Meter Wire $1
    Crystal OSC $0.50
    5V Regulator $0.80
    Capacitors (For reg and OSC) $0.50

    Total; $44.25



    Option 2;


    Junebug (PICKit 2 built in); $55 built ($45 non assembled)

    Total; $55

    [​IMG]
    Image from http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

    The Junebug is an all in one package designed for learning how to use PIC's and interfacing with devices. With a PICKit 2 Clone built in, you can not only program a complete fist full of different devices - but instantly use the built in LED's/Switches/IR/Potentiometers without creating your own circuits on a breadboard.

    Furthermore - you are not limited to the realms of AXE, much more detailed and complete software is available with even more routines then the ones you have listed above (Leftyretro)

    Maybe this will help you understand? (Video tutorial on PIC programming)

    [​IMG]
     
  7. gramo

    gramo New Member

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    If the Input is floating (eg, waiting for a keypress that ties it to 5V, then yes - use a 10K resistor to pull it back to earth instantly

    The input impedance on a PIC is about 10Meg Ohm, that alot.. so after 5V is taken away, you can get 'residual voltage' that will cause miss readings..

    like this;

    [​IMG]

    More can be found here
     
  8. Leftyretro

    Leftyretro New Member

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    Yes, a very nice system that then opens up the world of PIC's ASM through their free MPLAB IDE software, and of course Swordfish and all the other powerful compiled basic and other vendors C languages. It certainly is where every advanced PIC user should want to end up at, after getting their feet wet with a Picaxe.. ;)

    Lefty
     
  9. gramo

    gramo New Member

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    AXE is just an overpriced yet somehow well market structured learning package. Buying a Junebug is by its rights the same as AXE - except for one fundamental area - no restrictions. (oh, and it won't AXE at your wallet)

    Its just one option out there - but I'd hate to see someone fall into the AXE trap and struggle to expand from it to something else, meanwhile spending cobious amounts in comparison...

    Junebug, comes with a similar package, a fist full of examples and guides. Plug it in to your USB port, and start playing...

    You can choose a programming language/style that suites you - you do not have to start with ASM - but sidestepping back to it (ASM) one day will open up concepts of how to make even more efficient and structured code... An experience that would be shared on any micro development.

    And yes, using stand alone PIC's would be where the intermediate user would find themselves in the future... But for the mean time, there are people like me and hundreds (thousands) of others that are creating tutorials and sharing learning experiences... Picking an AXE over something midstream is like buying the $10 bottle of tomato sauce over the $3 bottle... Both taste the same on a snag. (EDIT - before mass outbreak starts - a snag is Aussie slang for sausage)

    I guess this is the beauty of forums and public opinions/experiences, you're not directed by the tunnel vision of any one person, giving the end user a broader scope of whats available - and it leaves threads out of control with multiple subjects like this going :eek:
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2007
  10. Leftyretro

    Leftyretro New Member

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    Well said:

    "I guess this is the beauty of forums and public opinions/experiences, you're not directed by the tunnel vision of any one person, giving the end user a broader scope of whats available - and it leaves threads out of control with multiple subjects like this going"

    But I would differ in your statement in that I think this thread is exactily what the OP was looking for and asking about and he probably received enough information to chew on for a week or three :D


    Lefty
     
  11. futz

    futz Active Member

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    That's how I did it. It's the sensible way when you have all the necessary parts at hand.
     
  12. shaneshane1

    shaneshane1 New Member

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    you are correct, iv taken on board all of what you have all said, and also done a heap of searching, and for ME i have choosen to go with futz's advise for a begginer to PIC'S,(AXE002/030XU), I have not purchased the kit yet,(dont have the money yet) but i have been using the simulator in the Picaxe programming editor, and i am learning heaps, and working things out very easy, so thanks to everyone for all the advise, i wouldn't have been able to make a clear decision without all your help, Thanks everyone!!! :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
  13. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    Well if it's an PICAxe you're after here's a more reasonably priced $16.95US starter kit. You'll probably want to get a couple of LEDs and switches for it.
    http://www.hvwtech.com/products_view.asp?ProductID=503

    PS give gramos "Spency's PICBasic" site a read, it's got several well explaind BASIC programming and hardware examples.
    http://users.tpg.com.au/gramo/Site/index.htm

    No matter what you chose shaneshane1 I'm sure you'll have fun and learn something to boot. Hope you share your projects with us.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. futz

    futz Active Member

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    Wow! That's a LOT better deal than that company in Australia. The chip is only another $4 on top of that. I bought my chip from HVW but didn't look at the starter kits at the time.

    Looks like HVW doesn't have the USB kits though. :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2007
  15. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    Probably work with any USB to RS232 adapter. Tiger Direct sells em for $14.
     
  16. Leftyretro

    Leftyretro New Member

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    From the Picaxe forum some have reported that some USB/RS232 adapters don't work well with the Picaxe, something about not properly passing through the RS232 'break' signal that the program editor uses to wake up or interrupt a running Picaxe program and activates the Picaxe bootloader.

    So if you don't have a comm port on your PC you might want to check in with that forum on a good brand and model for a USB/Comm adapters.

    So far I've been only using a true desk top PC comm port and it works fine. Some have had problems using laptop comm ports as they sometimes use lower voltages for their Comm ports and the simple 2 resistor comm circuit for the picaxe sometimes does not respond well to those lower voltages.

    http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/

    Lefty
     
  17. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    I thought the PICAxe was a 2 TX/RX system sans handshaking.
    USB to RS232 are the bane of programmers, some work plenty don't.
    I built the Unicorn kit so I wouldn't have to troubleshoot the things.
     
  18. Leftyretro

    Leftyretro New Member

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    The RS232 break command is really not a handshake per sa. A break in RS232 is any time the line is placed into a continous space condition longer then a legitimate character time, kind of a continous start condition. Not many system use a break command but it is a legacy of the RS-232 standard.

    Lefty
     

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