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My central lock alarm system does not work

Discussion in 'Automotive Electronics' started by yash01, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The picture looks like one actuator for one door. There has to be an actuator in each door. It's likely that all of the actuators are tied together AND that there are two relays that activates lock and unlock especially since the alarm that broke is aftermarket too.

    You need to figure out what you have and how it;s wired. The original alarm and even the new alarm could have relays internal. That, so far,, we can't help you with.

    The assumptions we are making is that you get a contact closure to ground either from a resistor or transistor for either 0.5 or 3.5 seconds.
    We don't know what kind of sinking current the alarm can support.

    Evidently, the wiring is there. The questions are:
    a) Is, is the wiring attached to the motors or a relay. My guess at this point, there are two relays somewhere and an actuator in each door.

    Not sure if you have an interior lock button?

    Your orange wire and your orange/white wire should connect to ground for either 0.5 or 3.5 s depending on the jumper for a lock/unlock command.

    I'm nearly 99% positive you need a variant of Les's circuit somewhere and it may already exist.

    If the existing wires go to the motors, you will need Les's circuit.

    The actuator motor is essentially a 2-wire motor where you have to reverse the polarity to change the state. Those two relays allow you to do that. They short out the motor at rest which by the way causes an instantaneous stop and they use a lock signal and an unlock signal in the form of a contact closure to ground.

    You apparently have the wiring in place. 10 AWG is probably too thick.
     
  2. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I'm puzzled as to why you bought a single actuator. Doesn't the existing system already have all the actuators necessary?
    Was it cheaper to buy a complete new alarm system than to get just a replacement remote?
     
  3. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    Tomorrow I will dismount all my car door to check if there are actuator on each door and to check if there are relay

    I'm sure that it have an internal relay on the new alarm

    And the old one is not the original factory alarm, I know because my electrician have installed it long ago

    I will check it tomorrow

    Yes I have, its unlock\lock only 3 door not the driver side


    It's because my electrician have tell me that the actuator is not good and need to be replaced just because the rubber is torn

    The replacement remote is not sold from my country, I have looked everywhere and from ebay the shipping is so expensive and my siren also is broken that why I have prefer to buy a new alarm system
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    I have opened all my doors today. The driver door has an actuator and the remaining 3 doors don't have one. It's very strange.

    When I press the interior lock switch in the driver's door, all the 3 doors get lock/unlock.

    While checking, I see that there are wires going to the mechanical door switch . The car is locking/unlocking by the mechanical door switch not by the actuator

    I was guesting that the cable must be connected to to a module, I was right it is connected to the factory alarm module

    But I don't understand why my electrician has place a actuator and why when I press interior switch only 3 door lock/unlock and not the driver door .

    What do you suggest to do ?

    I have attach some picture, please see it

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Confused too.

    Move the actuator manually and see what happens. Guess is that it locks/unlocks the driver's door?

    So, the car has factory electric door locks and the driver's door doesn't work?

    I need to ask if you have a multimeter?

    I can think of a scenereo involving remote electric start, where a key in the ignition event would unlock the (driver's/all doors). The actuator might be for alarm use only. In two vehicles, I can't lock the keys in the car with the engine running, A manual lock would be followed by an unlock. Not sure how many doors are affected in my vehicles. The only way for me to do that is to use another key.

    The other scenereo is the driver;s door actuator is bad and was replaced with the aftermarket one.

    A third possibility is there is something weird as to how the locks operate.
     
  7. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the 3 doors that do not have actuators may have solenoids in the locks. The drivers door (Before the actuator was fitted.) just relied on turning the key to unlock the door. KISS may have other suggestions when it is daytime in his part of the world.

    Les.
     
  8. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    When I put supply on the actuator it lock when I change polarity it unlock all door including the driver's door

    Yes I have

    I have the factory alarm module, can I use it for central locking?

    I think that the driver door lock/unlock is not functioning that why he has place a actuator there,


    Mechanical door switch, there are two cable that are connected to the switch

    [​IMG]
    hosting image


    Picture of the module and relay
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Without worrying about why, you just have to control this actuator using two SPDT relays, (two diodes - suggested) and a modified version of Les's circuit.

    Les's explanation also works: The driver's door is mechanically locked/unlocked with a key and the other doors are electrically locked/unlocked.
     
  10. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    Why is the driver door is not electrically locked/unlocked as others.

    The driver's mechanically locked/unlocked has also two cable connected to the module( black and yellow/red ) The other 3 doors colour code is red/white and red/blue
     
  11. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    The mechanical movement from the key operates the lock on the drivers door. (As it did on old cars that did not have central locking) The key will also operate a switch which will send the power to the locks on the other 3 doors to operate some form of electric lock. As you have the movement from the key to operate the lock on the drivers door you do not need an electrical lock. This saves money but also allows the door to be locked / unlocked when the battery is flat.

    Les.
     
  12. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    ok, that mean I need the actuator

    what relay and diode will I need to buy?

    Can you please do a simple circuit diagram for me as you know I'm a newbie
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  13. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    pretty much the circuit less drew here: http://www.electro-tech-online.com/...arm-system-does-not-work.147384/#post-1254145 except make the Normally Closed positions the lower ones.

    If you follow the re-configured circuit, the both sides of the motor will be grounded at rest. Activating one relay will unground one side and apply 12V. Activating the other will unground the other side and apply 12 V. If you activated both relays the motor would have 12V on each side. Thus, the directions change and the motor get's braked on turn-off.

    A 1n4002 diode should be across the coil. This helps reduce turn off spikes. The band of the diode should face the 12 V side.

    The BOSH style automotive relays will work. You may be able to solder the diodes at the coil.

    The bigger problem is finding the room to mount the relays. As I said before, the sockets help for a number of reasons.



    ==

    What you can check with your DVM is place one probe on 12 V somewhere and the other probe on the orange/white and see if you get a blip on unlock. Do the same for orange and see if you get a blip on lock.

    A chinese source: http://www.banggood.com/12V-12-Volt...with-Socket-30-amp-40-amp-Relay-p-931331.html

    If you want a really nice professional installation, use these http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/terminal-strips/7033833/ and wire ferrules http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/conne...p-bootlace-ferrules/?searchTerm=wire+ferrules.
    You can cut the strip to length. In the US, I can buy the ferrules in any quantity. The strip does not appear to have "wire protectors", so the ferrules are necessary for stranded wire.

    So, even though the relay is cheap, you can end up with other issues. Wire by the foot in different colors. A crimping tool. Crimped connectors (often available in boxes of 100) Wire can sometimes be had in an automotive store as well as the fast-on connectors. They come in different sizes and for different wire gauges too. You may need clips for routing the wire too or even tape. Tape I use for automotive work is $40.00 USD per roll. It's called self-fusing silicone electrical tape. You might need paint to tough up drilled holes.

    reselectronics and farnell are to major distributers on your side of the pond.

    ==

    A couple of projects at home were mechanical in nature: One was a stop for a vertical blind. I had to measure (I have a digital caliper) Turned out it was close to 7.5 mm. I bought a 0.250" Delrin 2 piece collar and a 7 mm drill and 7.5 mm reamer. You need a vise and a drill (have). I also needed 4 sacrificial Nylon washers so I could drill the hole. I would also need a hex key wrench (have).
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  14. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  15. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    There is a button labeled "Upload a File" where you can upload pictures. Not sure of the size limitation.
     
  16. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    KISS, according to the pop-up, the limitation is still stupidly set at 32GB. Heaven help us if someone takes that literally; the site would grind to a halt. (I've previously raised this with site admin, but no action taken).
     
  17. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The limitation isn't even in the 5 MB range. Don't believe anything you see. I had to downsize a pic to upload it.
     
  18. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I found this: http://www.gallotech.com/DoorActuatorInstallationManual061008.pdf to browse.

    First, there are 2 and 5 wire actuators in this system. Second, they don;t tell you how the system works.

    I would suspect that the "controller" can somehow sense that the linkage moved and can therefore use the manual lock buttons on the front doors to electrically activate all of the locks.

    Here http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=1703 is a brief 2/5 answer/

    This http://ccs.exl.info/locks.html tries, but it's a crappy explanation.

    This http://pdf.ampire.de/directed/Tech-Tip-1041.pdf really messes up my understanding and STILL doesn;t explain the 5 wire actuator. Help!

    It does solve the one actuator in the driver's door works.

    Closer: http://www.rclick.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=266 Single pole Center Off switch?
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  19. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    No I don't see nothing from the alarm system

    But on the multi-meter when I lock/unlock from the remote voyage raise to 1.6v


    Yes I have seen it but I can't upload image I can only unload files with exe format , don't know why

    What do you suggest me to do?

    Thanks for your help. I really appreciate.

    Thanks you again
     
  20. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    Hi yash01,
    You can definitely upload .jpg and .png graphics files. Click on the "Upload a file button" To the right just under the box where you are typing your reply. Navigate to the directory where the file is located. I find it does not show all the files in the directory. (I am running Windows 7 64 bit Pro.) Type the first letter of the filename you want to upload. It then shows all the files starting with that letter. Select the file you want. The readings you got from your post #38 do not make sense. (I would have expected the meter to show about 12 volts for about 1.5 seconds.) If you have a manual on the alarm can you scan and post the specification information ? It is the details of the lock output signals that we are interested in. Also had you already tried connecting these outputs to anything ?

    Les.
     
  21. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    Yes, it is working thanks

    No, I have not the manual

    Do you think I must try to connect it with two relay?
     

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