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My central lock alarm system does not work

Discussion in 'Automotive Electronics' started by yash01, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    Hi, I have purchase a alarm system for my Nissan b14, all is working properly except the central locking, I have install a new actuator 2 wire( green and blue, I have wired orange/ black from the alarm to the actuator green wire and connect orange/white to blue wire from the actuator, but it is not working. How can I get the actuator work and I have attach the wiring diagram of the module

    Please help me,

    Thanks,
     

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  2. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Welcome to ETO!
    Can you post wiring details/spec of the actuator?
    Do you have the electric/pneumatic selection jumpers/switches correctly set?
     
  3. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    Thanks

    It a 12v, it will pull when reverse its polarity
     

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  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Looking at the installation diagram for the alarm, I don't see any suggestion that it reverses polarity to the actuator. Both outputs for the actuator(s) are marked "Output(-)". My guess (I could be wrong) is that each output is an open-collector or open-drain type which pulls the output to ground when active. Are you sure the alarm and actuator are compatible?
     
  6. leftfield95

    leftfield95 Member

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    I think that the alarm module is designed to work with an existing central locking module that the vehicle already has. The negative going output simply emulate the central locking buttons already mounted in the vehicle.
     
  7. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    I think you will probably need to use two relays (Or an H bridge circuit.) to interface the alarm with the actuator you have. I am thinking like the diagram below.

    Lock_cct01.jpg
    You will need to check that the lock outputs switch to ground and that the current rating is enough to drive the relays that you use. You will also need to check if the signals stays active or go inactive after a short time. If they stay active you will need to add a delay circut between the lock output and the relays so the relays are only activated for a few seconds. If you do not do that the relay current will discahrge the battery over time. It should not cause a problem with the actuator as this will probably have limit switches. It will also be a good idea to put a snubber circuit across the actuator connections. I would suggest about a 470 nF capacitor in series with a 10 ohm resistor.

    Les.
     
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  8. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Les is one the right track. The lock and unlock outputs look like there negative going or a contact to ground. Just how much current that supports would be defined in the module.

    If the car already has power locks, then you might wire things differently, There is a way to typically "wire or" using diodes to make both the existing and the alarm lock work. Wire or-ing may not be necessary.

    I added a dash switch that disabled the passenger unlock function unless enabled. My car at the time did not have existing locks.
     
  9. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  10. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    Thank everyone, it's mean that I have buy a wrong alarm system,

    How many relay will I need

    I have an relay that I get it together with the alarm system for , its 961A-1B-12DM 40A.

    Can I used this relay?
     
  11. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    1. Does your car have a factory installed lock system?
    2. How many doors do you want to lock/unlock?

    More importantly, did you damage the alarm module?
    You can test by taking one side of the coil to +12 and the other to lock and see if the relay clicks for the required time.
    Do the same for unlock.

    That relay is fine, but the connector makes life easier. You will need a minimum of two relays.
     
  12. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    1. No I does have it

    2. all door, I need only 1 actuator to lock all door

    The alarm module is in good condition
    what do you mean connectors?

    I will buy two relay
    Can you tell me how to wired it please
     
  13. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    Hi KISS,
    I noticed this after I had uploaded the schematic. I decided to wait for a responce from the OP and mention it then. (I reasoned that the OP would not notice that the way it was drawn was bad practice but would work.) I was expecting him to ask questions about a delay circuit or how to determine if the lock outputs just pulsed or were a solid level. I just had another look at the installation diagram and noticed the jumpers to select between electric and pneumatic locks. I am guessing that the 0.5 and 3.5 are the length of the pulse to the locks (I assume "sed" should read "sec") If this guess is correct then I think I would select 3.5 seconds.

    yash01,
    Can you confirm that the lock actuators you have have built in limit switches ?
    Edit.
    yash01,
    I have just noticed your post #11
    I don't understand your answer to question 1 asked by KISS. Just answer yes or no.
    Can you explain how you can lock 2 or 4 doors with one actuator ?

    Les.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  14. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    How can I check this ?
     
  15. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    Hi yash01,
    To confirm that the actuator has limit switches built in connect it to a 12 volt DC supply (EG a car battery.) via an ammeter. If the actuator moves there will be a reading on the ammeter while it is moving. When it stops the current will either drop to zero or increase. If it increases disconnect it straight away. Reverse the polarity of the actuator wires and repeat the test. The actuator should move this time. Again note if the current drops to zero or increases when it reaches the end of it's travel.

    Les.
     
  16. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    99% sure those actuators have no limit switch. It's just a motor running a rack. A Stall for a short time is generally OK. It also means that the usual mechanical way of locking the car works too. It should not be an issue.

    Reminder, we have a language problem here. yash: you might try translate.google.com for a translator.

    A socket for the link I posted looks like this: http://www.parts-express.com/12-vdc-5-pin-relay-socket-interlocking-style--330-080 This particular socket allows you to gang multiple relays together with an EFFECTIVE single socket.

    Your previous wiring COULD have damaged the lock and unlock circuits. The easiest TEST CASE is to connect a relay properly and listen for the click. How you wired it is not likely to have done any damage.

    Number of doors you wish to lock/unlock?
     
  17. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Les:

    The diagram seems to suggests you have a choice of 0.5 s or 3.5 depending on the position of the internal JP1 jumper.

    BTW: I did one install too many of a car alarm system.
     
  18. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    You are right, the actuators have no limit switch and yes I will used the translator

    I don't know if here in Mauritius I will get the socket to buy it

    I want to lock/unlock all door

    I have 1 actuator in my car, when I manually lock/unlock all door automatically lock/unlock form the driver door
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  19. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Better in terms of translation.

    Usually if you can get the relay, you can get the socket. It just gets messy wiring without one. Check with car alarm/stereo installers. they may know the relay as a Bosch automotive relay.

    All can generally mean two (2) or four (4) doors So, 2 or 4 doors?

    In any event, you will need one actuator per door lock mounted inside the door. Running the wires are usually troublesome. remember to use "drip loops" that prevent water from following the wire. If the relays are mounted base down, the wires hit a low point first and therefore the water doesn't end up at the relay terminal.

    OK, so you will also need a manual switch installed in the driver's door for lock/unlock?

    A switch is easy. It would normally be a DPDT center off switch, momentary for each side., so (on)-none-(on) arrangement. The center terminals would go to ground and one Normally Open (NO) pole of the switch would go to orange/white and the other NO side would go to
    orange (lock).

    So from the back of the switch
    L G x
    x G U
    G= ground
    L = lock (orange)
    U = unlock (orange/white)

    ===

    You have a few choices:
    Choice A (two relays per door installed in each door)
    a) Install two relays in each door.
    b) Install a source of +12 V (always on) in each door
    c) Install ground in each door.
    d) Install orange in each door - lock
    e) install orange/white in each door - unlock
    The driver's door would have access to everything and each door would get 4 wires. This keeps the wiring simpler.

    Choice B (two relays, installed in driver;s door)
    a) Install +12 (always on) in the driver's door
    b) install ground in each door
    d) Install orange in the driver's door - lock
    e) install orange/white in the driver's door - unlock
    f) Install another pair of wires out of the driver;s door connected to the motor.
    So, you have six (6) wires out of the driver's door
    g) the other doors only get two wires (pair f)

    Choice C (two relays, installed in passenger compartment)
    a) Install +12 always on to relays
    b) Install ground to relays
    c) All doors get 2 wires installed for the motor/actuator. All actuators are wired in parallel.
    d) the driver's door needs 2 wires for the lock/unlock switch.

    Some variations on this theme:
    a) Put a lock/unlock switch on the passenger door.
    b) Passenger door enable: In my case I had a Valet mode (parking garage mode) switch and a enable unlock from the alarm on the passenger side. I just thought it was safer to just unlock the driver's door most of the time. I did not have an interior lock/unlock button.
    c) if more was known about the sink current of the alarm and the stall current of the motors/actuators, the relays could be eliminated, but I believe they need to stay,
    d) The lock mechanism I installed used a huge solenoid.
    e) With the manual switch for lock/unlock it's POSSIBLE to burn out an actuator by holding the button down for a very long time.
    e1) A timer could be installed to prevent this (too complex)
    e2) A properly sized polyswitch http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...c-resettable-fuses/656272/page/3?k=polyswitch can be installed to prevent this from happening. This is typically done for window motors. Just this past summer, I had a power window not work because it was too hot outside.

    Les showed a diode across the coil of each of the relays. This should be a 200 V PRV diode or greater. A 1n4003 or bigger would work. http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/1N4001-D.PDF The diodes are designed not to conduct in normal operation and to absorb the spike when the motor is turned off.

    As you can see, the lock/unlock system is initially is totally independent of the alarm system. It just has to operate with a contact closure to ground for lock and unlock.

    This is a lot to digest. The passenger doors may not have a way to run wires without water ingress.







    It's a good idea to use 18 AWG or larger for wiring. Don;t ask me how I know.
     
  20. yash01

    yash01 New Member

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    So, finally I will tell you why I want to install a new alarm system. I am sorry for telling you
    late.

    I am a newbie. The remote of my alarm system has broken. That's why I decided to buy a new car alarm system. I purchased it from an online website, thinking that there is central locking just like in the old system.
    The old system was working with only 1 actuator. I have attach the picture please see it

    [img=http://s27.postimg.org/jdjd23gkv/20160227_165413_1.jpg]

    I have no knowledge about electric in cars.

    What do you suggest? I buy another alarm system or can I still use the new one?

    Basically, I want to lock/unlock all the 4 doors in my car like with the existing system.

    What do you suggest me?

    From that 4 choices you mentioned above, what do you recommend me to do? As I already told you that I'm a newbie.

    Can I used 10 AWG or 2.5mm?
     
  21. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    Hi KISS,
    It looks like you have a better knowledge of reasonably modern car electrics. I had a long gap in owning my own car from about 1980 until 2004 while I had a company car. The only fault I had my car from 2004 until now was an ABS sensor became open circuit. (I think it cost me about £70 for a bit of wire wrapped around a magnet. But it was easy to replace.) To avoid giving possibly conflicting advice I will drop out of the thread for the moment.

    Les.
     

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