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Mount St. Helens Glacier

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by crashsite, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. crashsite

    crashsite Banned

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    The human species is not likely to "survive"...at least in the form we know today. But, if we could look at what we will be in 1000 years, it will all seem perfectly normal and logical based on the history humans will have known (Just as "miracles" such as cars and planes and computers would have seemed fantastic to early man but, commonplace and rather uninspiring for us). Even if we cause our own demise through stupidity and/or mismanagement, in the context of those actions, it will at least follow some sort of timeline we can refer to.

    Yes, the younger (and, still to be born generations) will have to do some cleanup and adjustments but, we older farts (and those who came before us) have done a lot of the grunt work for the new crowd so...in the musical style..."Don't cry for them, Argentins". We're merely giving them a 'work-in-progress', as was given to us and, can only hope that you all will also take the task pretty seriously and will forge ahead to the next step (which may or may not improve things) and leave things in at least a state that can be considered, "advanced" from when you got it.

    When you make fine furniture you also leave a lot of sawdust on the floow during the process. And, so it is with Project Planet Earth.
     
  2. Hero999

    Hero999 Banned

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    The ice age that will occur after the current warming period (whether it's largly human caused or not), will be far more devistating to the human population than the warming we're currently experiancing.

    Agriculture will become unviable north of about 40° latitute, meaning people in the north will either have to build massive greenhouses, adopt a hunter gather lifestyle again or migrate south. The more southerly folk will have to adapt too by growing cooler climate crops, HarveyH42's descendants will have to make do with growing apples and pears instead of oranges and lemons.

    Places which are now covered in tropical rainforrest will become desert (whether we've made it this way beforehand or not) and areas covered by temperate woodland will be replaced by tundra. There will be winners to, some of the deserts will become temperate woodland or grassland.
     
  3. rjvh

    rjvh New Member

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    and with how many people?????

    Robert-Jan
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. HarveyH42

    HarveyH42 Banned

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    I don't think the rise or fall of the global average temperature is going to have a huge impact on the survival of this species called Man. I've personally survived highs of 114 degrees, lows of 9 degrees. We'll do just fine. Society, civilization... who knows, kind of decaying anyway, maybe a change is for the better.
     
  6. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    Man survives 72 min packed in Ice.

    Maybe more :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOT2OSb5tUY

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo

    I'm cold just thinking about it. No wait that's just the air conditioner on my legs.

    kv :D
     
  7. crashsite

    crashsite Banned

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    One of the fun things about science is when we can go into the science fiction mode and refer to our species in the third person....
     
  8. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    Third person ?


    Sometimes you want to.

    If you have ever seen some of these guy's in prison you might start thinking of speaking in fourth or fifth just be as far away as possible. :D


    kv
     
  9. HarveyH42

    HarveyH42 Banned

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    Everything about Global Warming, sounds more like science fiction, than actual science. The temperature will rise, but not beyond anything we occasionally experience already. We know a cooling cycle will soon follow, so all hope is not lost. There are a lot of things going on, that don't make me particularly proud to be included. We as a people, should moved past this sort of fear of the unknown a long time ago. Global Warming doom is just another reminder of how little we've grown.
     
  10. rjvh

    rjvh New Member

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    I do agree that the media hyped it a lot but in my opinion we can't deny with the increase of the power consumption that it has no effect on the climate

    and I do feel that we should do something about this consumption behavior

    at least make it more efficient

    Robert-Jan
     
  11. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild New Member

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    hm a longwinded way of saying I don't care
     
  12. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance and Apathy.

    Which tends to lead me to the question.

    Just how much living has he done ?

    Apparently he hasn't lived in or explored my life living in this peace of sh..... body I have that has been destroyed by such ignorance or apathy.

    The lack of empathy would place him in the category of de-evolving humanoid species.

    I think ?

    kv
     
  13. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild New Member

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    I take it you are aware of the fact that I and anyone else on here is not aware of your personal condition and I meant no particular offence

    how much living have i done ? enough to be fast despairing at the way people will waste for the shear joy of wasting and how big it makes them feel. where I work many computers andlights run 24/7 it just breaks my heart but they can't be bothered not their money paying the bill so who cares
     
  14. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time I like to Joke But ......

    There is no offense taken.


    My father loves to tear away at my idea's and it has led to discovery's. This is what will happen all across the net.

    And your Generation will carry the ball even further than anyone could have ever realized. But you must educate the 80%.

    They will not seek it on their own.


    kv
     
  15. HarveyH42

    HarveyH42 Banned

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    Instead of all the hype, and what amounts to a scam, why don't they promote the positive reasons why we should clean up our lifestyle. We would have less disease, cancer, and live longer and healthier. We wouldn't need to work so many hours, to just to hand our paychecks over to the fuel and power guys. More free time, better health, and a longer life is great incentive. I still think fear, and the rush to make all these changes before it crap, will make things much worse, and for nothing. If we passed laws to force everything new, must be Green, within 10 years, and everything that isn't must be removed in 20 years, we are going to create one huge pile of crap.

    Manufacturing all this Green, will increase the demand for energy, many times the current rate, before we'll see any benefit. Don't imagine they'll be using a lot of recycled materials either. You can't retire one machine, without having a Green replacement ready to take it's place. Conversions? Not the most efficient way to go, nor will we see much improvement over the original.

    It took hundreds of years to create this mess, we aren't going to clean it up that quickly. Instead of foolishly rushing into a quick fix out of panic, we need a clear and logical plan, a reasonable time table. I think the number one thing would be to recycle and reuse the resources we already dug up. Then work to replace the old sources of energy with better choices. I think the plants and trees are the best choice for remove pollutants from the air and soil, need to preserve what we have, and grow more. Cutting down trees for paper and building materials just isn't needed anymore, just cheaper and easier.
     
  16. crashsite

    crashsite Banned

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    Here's a bit of a cold douche in the face for you guys (ie: a dose of reality). The "green" in the "green technology" is actually the almighty greenback dollar (you foreigners can insert the , "almighty ______________ "...based on whatever color your funny-looking money is).

    A problem with green is that it is often at odds with the corporate quarterly report. Companies would love to be more environmentally responsible but, they just can't because it puts them at a disadvantage with their competition. The solution to that is to legislate a level playing field and, that's being done. If Ford and Chevy and Toyota and Kia and Saab and Dodge all have to meet certain standards by a certain time, then all must put in the R&D efforts...all must spend the money...and, we consumers must ultimately foot that bill. But, at least it's pretty fair. If all companies (domestic and foreign) must meet smoke stack emmission standards, fir exanokem at least there's some parity (although those with cheap labor can do that cheaper, too...but, that's another issue).

    Even though I've been branded as one who doesn't give a diddly-damn (worse...in a "long winded" manner), I can at least see some of the mechanisms at work and present them here, along with my lack-lustre, worthless opinions...

    Hey, I'm not going to let you guys be the only ones having fun pissing and moaning about your crappy lives...
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  17. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    True: Simple Logic (harv242) It's mismanagement.

    I think in terms of when you attend something at a school. They set up all the chairs and you watch what ever you came for and then you get up and leave.

    Meanwhile there was no custodian to do the job and the children had to do it.

    If the parents were to simply have picked up the chairs they sat in and returned them to the place they came from the problem is solved.

    How about a Parade we go we watch we eat a bevy of food and drink. We get up and you guessed it we leave. If all participants were to grab the garbage and manage it with care. The food,paper,plastic,metal. Now you have it.

    So, when you think of that patch of ground your currently standing on (or sitting what ever) there comes a huge responsibility for it.

    And it is the rent you pay on the space your currently occupy.

    We don't own it we just rent, but there is a cost and we are passing that cost down through time.


    Happy to see you on board crashsite your not all green but I think you might get there. But then again neither am I. But the work to clean up the Exxon Valdez took one person to create and hundreds to clean.

    The ecosystem did not fail and some of it was recovered for now. You may not start to hug a tree but at least you might start thinking of becoming self aware.

    It's about the journey. Not about the destination.



    kv
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  18. crashsite

    crashsite Banned

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    Zen zere were zix......zeven?

    There is no "destination". At best, there's an event/time line with some obscure waypoints over which there must be a lot of argument about both their importance and, in most instances, even their existence.

    And, that's not a "Zen" view. It's a very practical and pragmatic one. When I say there is no destination, I mean that in the most literal sense. There is NO destination and any attempt to create one will fail as it will eventually be overtaken and passed by the timeline.

    The green thing will have its journey and thee will eventually be some resolution that will make it no longer germain (ie: perhaps the destruction of the human race) but, the journey will continue to extend beyond that point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  19. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    Transmutation.

    Yep, Thank you (Zen Master Crashsite) for the heads up..............

    I like this one week Edit: ElectroMaster.

    kv
     
  20. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

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    crashsite what you're saying makes sense and is making HUGE waves through the metal finishing industry at large right now, what they're finding though is that going green makes more $cents$ than it does sense when you boil it down and look it over with intelligent engineers. Metal finishing has been hit HARD in the last few years with the ROHS and ELV initiatives. It's stiring up buisness as usual but the metal finishing industry at large because of it's trade and strong demands is more flexible that straight up 'big auto' is. Big auto got that way doing things bigger faster and cheaper, not necessarily by doing it smarter. The R&D budget for any big company should always be a significant portion of it's income in any company that wants to be able to adapt in the real world.
     
  21. crashsite

    crashsite Banned

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    And, it really is a major component of any company that plans to stay in the game and be competetive in the future. Incorporating the R&D into the operating budget is a tough balancing act and it's not surprising that companies are so often caught off guard.

    To me, it's ridiculous that the major car companies (obviously, my bell weather example...but, conceptually applicable to other industries) haven't had hybrids on the market for decades. Part of it is going after proven markets to satisfy the quarterly bottom line but, I do think part of it is a little arrogance (sadly, the same arrogance that made the big American car companies continue to build gas guzzlers while the foreign companies were building what we really wanted...and stole so much market share). You'd think they'd have learned.

    I'll say one thing about the computer, peripheral, internet and chip industries. They don't accept that any technology today will be salable tomorrow. Of course, that makes them even more volitile but, at least they know how to adapt quickly.

    I saw a news item jus the other day that made me wonder. It was about, Ford but, could have been any American car company. They know how to build the small, high-mileage cars and are building them in places like Ford of England. But, they had their pants down when the gas crunch hit and it will take a couple of years for them to tool up here...by which time, the gas "crisis" may be over and they'll be back to wanting to build pickups and SUVs again.

    There must be some common ground that can allow the adaptability and, I suppose it will be up to the governments of the world to impose it.
     

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