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Stanley Meyers and Zero-Point energy

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by firewater, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. firewater

    firewater New Member

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    It's been said that Stanley Meyer's invention which split water into hydrogen and oxygen on demand violates the second law of thermodynamics.

    "Scientists' current understanding of the universe and all its particles and forces is called the Standard Model and is now over 35 years old. It does not explain why some particles, such as protons, are relatively heavy, while others, like photons, have no mass at all. In a theory that dates to the early 1960s, a British physicist named Peter Higgs sugessted that there was a mechanism - alternatively described as a field, boson, a particle, a whaddayacallit - that makes some things heavy and other things lite."

    What do the detectors do?
    "They will also look for "dark matter" believed to make up most of the universe, antimatter that mirrors all known matter, and the elusive Higgs-boson particle - sometimes called the "God particle", because is is believed to give mass to all other particles."

    William Booth, Washigton Post, on the (LHC) Large Hadron Collider built near Geneva Switzerland and now in the testing phase.

    The second law of thermodynamics only applies to linear systems and the behavior of the particles involved are based on the Standard Model, which is incomplete.

    John Archibald Wheeler who just died recently, worked on the Manhattan Project (Atom bomb) and Matterhorn project (Hydrogen bomb) and was first to coin the phrases, blackhole and wormhole.)

    "Then however, I discovered the two chapters of Misner, Thorne and Wheelers's "Gravitation" that in quantum mechnics there existed an all-pervading energy imbedded in the fabric of space consisting of fluctions of electricity. It was called the zero-point energy. Zero-Point energy refers to absolute zero degrees Kelvin. Wheeler's "Geometrodynamics" showed that the energy density was enormous: 10^93grams/cm^3. Quantum mechanics showed that this energy was constantly interacting with matter and elementary particles in what what is called vacuum polarization."

    "Modern physics may allow the posibility of tapping energy out of the fabric of space. While studying physics as a graduate student, I ran into a most interesting set of papers.[1-8] they stated that totally empty space was filled with fluctuating energy. As as engineer caught in an energy crisis, two questions arose. Was energy really there and, is so, could it be tapped as a source? I talked with many scientists on this matter and discovered a remarkable thing: Most did not believe this energy existed. However I did run into some physicists who were already familiar with the concept. When I asked them, "Why can't this energy be tapped?" the reply was, "It would violate the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy. Random fluctions must forever remain random." To them, there was no way to influence this energy.
    Then I discovered the work of Dr. Timothy Boyer who showed that matter influenced this fluctuating energy. And recently, I discovered the work of Dr. Ilya Prigogine, the 1977 Nobel Prize winner in chemistry, who expanded the second law of thermodynamics to show how certain systems may evolve from randomness toward order. Combining their work opens up the possibility, in principle that the fluctuating energy of space may be cohered into a source."

    "The recent work of work of Procaccia clarifies the second law of thermodynamics. He demonstrates that nonlinear systems under certain conditions may evolve toward macroscopic order. A simple example of this thesis is the rectifier circuit ( Figure 1). Here thermal noise from the resistor is channeled through the one-way valve of the diode to charge up the capacitor. This, energy in a random state (thermal noise) is channeled to produce energy that can be used for work (charged capacitor)."

    "Since a nonlinear system does not exhibit linear superposition, a combination of inputs often produces suprising, synergistic effects--the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. A striking example of this comes from the field of plasma physics. When sufficient energy (e.g. an electric impulse) is added to a gas, it ionizes into plasma. If more energy is added, the electric charge undergoes violent, random, turbulent motion. If still more energy is added, a surprising thing can sometimes occur:
    The violent turblent plasma forms up into a meta-stable vortex ring called a plasmoid.[11-13] Figure 2 is a cross-section diagram of the current flow in the plasmoid. Such a structure cannot be predicted by a linear thermodynamic model, but can be predicted by a nonlinear magnetohydrodynamic model. the nonlinear interactions produce macroscopic coherence form random turblence. This plasmoid vortex ring may produce a cohering resonance with the zero-point energy as the zero-point energy interacts with the plasmoid. This interaction occurs in a nonlinear system evolving toward meta-stable order. Could the plasmoid slightly cohere the zer-point energy by vacuum polarization so that it provides tha energy fux needed to maintain the system? Are ther any examples in nature that imply such a thing could occur? Ball lightning has been modeled as a vortex ring plasmoid[15,16] and its suprising persistence implies it is interacting with some source of energy."

    Tapping Zero Point Energy
    ISBN: 0-931882-00-2
    Moray B. King

    REFERENCES

    ETHER, ZERO POINT ENERGY

    1. M. Rutherfer, "Neutrino Structure of Ether." Lett. Il Nuovo Cimento 13, No. 1, 9 (1975)
    This paper references various Lorentz invariant ether thories.

    2. H. C. Dudley, The Morality of nuclear Planning, Kronos Press (1976), Glassboro, NJ 08208
    This monograph describes a neutrino ether and its relation to radioactivity. Also "Is There an Ether"", Science Digest, (May 15,1975).

    3. G. Gamow, Thirty Years that Shook Physics, Doubleday, NY (1966)
    This text contains a simple description of Dirac's vitural pair vacuum.

    4. C. Misner, K. Thorne, and J. Wheeler, Graviation, W.H. Freeman and Co. (1970)
    Chapters 43 and 44 contain description of zero-point fluctuations and superspace. Also John Archibald Wheeler, Geometrodynamics,
    Academic Press Inc. (1962) describes vacuum fluctuations and wormholes.

    5. T.H. Boyer, "Random Electrodynamics: The Theory of Classical Electrodynamics with Classical Electromagnetic Zero-Point Radiation." Phys. rev. D11, No. 4 790 (1975)

    6. M.O. Scully, M. Sargent, "The Concept of the Photon." Physics Today, 38, (March 1972)

    7. E. G. Harris, A Pedestrian Approach to Quantum Field Theory, Wiley Interscience (1972). Chapter 10, " The Problem of Infinties in Quantum Electrodymanics."
    This text references experiments tha detect the zero-point energy.

    8. S.L. Adler, "Some Simple Vacuum Polarization Phenomenology..." Phys. Rev. D10, No. 11 (1974)


    NONLINEAR THERMODYNAMICS

    9. Ilya Procaccia, J. Ross, Science 198, 716 (18 Nov. 1977)

    10. P. Glandsdorff, I. Prigogine, Thermodynamic Theory of Structure, Stability, and Fluctuations, Wiley interscience, NY (1971).

    15. P.O. Johnson, " Ball Lightning and Self Containing Electromagnetic Fields." Am. J. Phys. 33, 119 (1965).

    16. M. B. King, "Energy Source Implications of a Helicon Toroid Model for Ball Lightning." QPR No. 18, Valley Forge Res. Center, Moore School, University of Pennsylvanna (1976)
     

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  2. The Mad Professor

    The Mad Professor New Member

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    A lot of things have been said about Stanley Meyer's and his invention,
    some of the more polite ones that come to mind are fraudster and charlatan.

    What is your opinion?
     
  3. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Stanley Meyers never showed his "invention" working. He was sued for fraud by his shareholders and he lost in court.

    Nobody has ever proved that a few bubbles of oxygen and Hydrogen made with electrolysis makes a gasoline engine use less gasoline except it makes the engine run lean which burns the valves and pistons and makes Nitrous Oxide pollution. An engine that burns its valves and pistons instead of gasoline uses less gasoline. An air leak in the intake manifold does the same as the few bubbles of oxygen and hydrogen.

    HHO in a car engine is a scam.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. firewater

    firewater New Member

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    Fraud charges

    It failed to work during a required demonstration of the water-fueled car in a 1990 court case. An Ohio court found Stanley Meyer guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" in a case brought against him by disgruntled investors. The court decided that the centerpiece of the car, his water fuel cell, was a conventional electrolysis device, and he was ordered to repay the investors $25,000.[1]

    However, in their 1 December 1996 issue , the London Sunday Times published an article entitled "End of Road for Car that Ran on Water" by Tony Edwards. It upheld the court case, stating that three "Expert Witnesses" were not impressed and decided that the WFC was simply using conventional electrolysis. It stated Stan Meyer was found guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and was ordered to repay the investors their $25,000. It implied that Michael Laughton, professor of electrical engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield University, London was due to examine the car, but was not allowed to see it. However, not mentioned was that this occurred in 1990 and that the WFC Water Fuel injector tech-base was still under U.S. National Security Review as in accordance to U.S. Patent Law and not available for public viewing. Also not mentioned were the many WFC Patents, verified laboratory and university testing that supports the bases of WFC technology nor the WFC appeal filing to dismiss Judge Corzine ruling due to Judicial default and other relevant information.[2]

    On 18 October 1995, a pretrial deposition hearing to inspect the WFC Dealership demonstration units (Variable-plate Electrical Polarization Process (VIC) Fuel Cell and Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequecy Generator Tubular-Array Fuel Cell) was held in the office of the plaintiff's attorney, Robert Judkins. Present were the plaintiff's, their attorneys, plaintiffs expert witness, Michael Leverich (Electronics Engineer), Stan Meyer, Dr. Russel Fowler, WFC witness and defense attorneys Judge Roger Hurley and James Detling, as well as a deposition recorder. During the deposition, Attorney Judkins attempted to have the WFC dismantled prior to implementing proper test procedures, which Stan Meyer refused. Michael Leverich confirmed that his initial measurements of the WFC Fuel Cells showed that it operated exactly as the WFC documentation stated it should, as so recorded on WFC Deposition Video Tape. However, he then added a unknown white substance (powder) for additional testing. Stan objected to this, since the WFC Fuel Cell uses plain tap water and does not require a chemical additive. The plaintiffs also admitted that, during their observances at WFC Dealship Seminars, tap water was always used without any chemicals added to the water. Despite Stan's objection, plaintiff measurements were taken of this chemicallized water-bath and recorded. This illegal act of tampering with WFC Evidence of Records was witnessed by WFC Cameraman, Dr. Russ Fowler, and all others who attended Plaintiffs Deposition To-Test.[3]

    In 1996, Stan Meyer gave oral testimony before the court demonstrating the WFC Fuel Cell "Mode of Operability" by using the Voltage Intensifier Circuit (VIC) to produce voltage of opposite polarity to separate and disassociate the water molecule into its component gases, hydrogen & oxygen. However, the court audio sound recording equipment seemed to malfunction and was switched off. Judge Corzine said proceedings should continue without it. This was a violation of judicial protocol, since the recording system is used to verify testimony given during the trial and as such becomes "Evidence of Records." After his oral testimony, Stan expected Attorney/Judge Hurley to start bringing forth WFC witnesses and counter arguements. Instead, Attorney/Judge Hurley spoke up, stated he had to leave for a pre-planned vacation and said that there was no more testimony to be given and waived the right of the defendant to give a case summary of the WFC facts brought before the court. Stan Meyer immediately stated he would protest and Judge Corzine ended the hearing. Stan wrote a "Request to Retract" fax-letter to the Sunday Times on 2 December 1996. He attached WFC documentation on the filing with the Disciplinary Counsel. He further stated that Judge Corzine had no right to turn off the court audio sound recording equipment, nor to rule against U.S. Patents, or overrule Government and University lab reports in the public domain concerning the mode of operability of the WFC Technology. Furthermore, Stan pointed out that no US Federal "Cease and Desist" order has ever been issued against WFC since the WFC Technology has been fully legalized under US Patent Security Law 35 USC 101 and other US Federal regulatory Acts. His final statement was that "WFC is here to stay" in contradiction to the Sunday Times statement.[4]

    This was posted at: http://experts.about.com/e/w/wa/Water_fuel_cell.htm
    but the part about the audio being switched off and the electrolyte added to the water was removed. I gave this site the link to it.

    http://waterfuelcell.org/moreinfo.html
     
  6. The Mad Professor

    The Mad Professor New Member

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    Sigh..

    You can cut & paste articles all you like but it means nothing.

    Firewater - have you given money to Stanley Meyers or some other 'free energy' inventor?

    There are great many inventions with patents both granted and pending whose theory of operation is at odds with science as we presently understand it. If you want a really good one to chew on you might like the 'Steorn' project which has a business model very much like Meyer's (lots of money up front but no proof).
     
  7. rjvh

    rjvh New Member

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    According the your documents the first court case whas in 1990
    that's 18 years ago :eek:

    in all those years he has still no working product than there is probably nothing

    Ohh the oil companies dit haras him (standard complain)

    if that is the case than he is rich now and did achieve his goal (getting rich)

    if he really had a working plan than he was plain stupid to look for private investors (he should have going to the oil companies)

    but he has nothing working so that he couldn't go to anybody except the stupid part of the private investors

    if he realy had something working and he would have go to greenpeace he would have by now a working product and getting rich

    HE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING

    sorry to say but it is just a hoax

    Robert-Jan
     
  8. HarveyH42

    HarveyH42 Banned

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    Federal courts don't generally make huge mistakes, nor deviate much from policy or procedure. He lost because he couldn't raise even the slight doubt that he had been falsely accused. Did he appeal the decision? Probably not, as he likely still walked away with more than he started with. To continue fighting it, would have been just handing his profits over to lawyers. Most of the people taken in these schemes would rather flush the money down the toilet, rather than admit, or have anyone find out the fell for such a scheme. Only the ones who lost more than the could afford, sued him. Most people have a problem admitting when they are wrong.
     
  9. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    The key points in red.

     
  10. firewater

    firewater New Member

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    I have posted this information to give a more complete record of the facts instead of the limited selected bits of information available on most sites. You may draw your own conclusions as to any conspiracies, Again I have just listed the facts. Also Mr. Meyer did appeal the court decision.
    "1) that the article was unbalance as it did not mention the fact that WFC is appealing against the decision of the presiding Judge on the grounds of judicial default; and that,
    2) that the article wrongly implies that the court order WFC to stop developing the Water Fuel Injection System; and that,..."

    http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_4_11_1.html

    I have also provided the proof of the zero-point energy Mr. Meyer spoke of as cacluated by John Archibald Wheeler. Stanley Meyer apparentlly had something of great interest as reported by the Ohio Columbus Dispatch newspaper below.

    Coroner's report
    The Grove City police investigation of Meyer's death included taped interviews of more than a dozen witnesses.

    Absent, however, were audiotapes of the two Belgians, Phillippe Vandemoortele and Marc Vancraeyenest.

    The men had agreed to purchase 56 acres along Seeds Road in Grove City. The city had approved a research campus there two months before Meyer's death.

    Lt. Steve Robinette said it's possible the men's interviews were not taped.

    Calls and e-mails to Vandemoortele and Vancraeyenest for this story were not returned.

    http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten.../08/hydroman.ART_ART_07-08-07_A1_4V77MOK.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008
  11. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Didn't Stanley Meyers also invent FREE ELECTRICITY?
    He connected the shaft of an electric generator to the shaft of an elwectric motor and connected their wires together. With a spin of the shafts then the generator powered the motor that spinned the generator continuously like majic.
    If the generator is very powerful then a lot of free electricity is generated.
    Perpetual motion??
     
  12. The Mad Professor

    The Mad Professor New Member

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    Very noble of you, but would it not be a better idea to host all this vast body of news cuttings and other material that you are so passionate about on a dedicated website where it may be collated and presented in a more comprehensive format?

    A number of freeware software utilities are available that enable even amateurs to write the HTML required for web pages as for hosting space this can also be obtained for free in some areas of the web. However if one is really adventurous then even a rather modest home PC can be made to function as web server in addition to its other normal roles. Thus giving you the capability to host a huge website at little or no cost to yourself.
     
  13. rjvh

    rjvh New Member

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    off course there where magic non friction bearings in both devices

    he used superconductor cables at room temparature (that was one of his first inventions (and taken of the market and put in a vault by the oil companies))

    Yeah right

    Robert-Jan
     
  14. Willbe

    Willbe New Member

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  15. Conrad_Turbo

    Conrad_Turbo New Member

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    I almost spit coffee all over my computer screen. Very very good example...power out is less tha the power going in.

    Too many people back up old theories that have had plenty of time to prove themselves...but yet don't understand, or want to deny, why the theory has never been proven.
     
  16. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    You've provided no proof, nor have any of the papers your post linked to. Makes for fun sci-fi though, I think they used zero point in the Incredibles.

    [​IMG]
    Syndrome from Pixar's The Incredibles levitates things on zero-point energy.

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  17. firewater

    firewater New Member

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    A dedicated site would be great but there are allready two much better one's than I could ever hope to make myself. http://waterfuelcell.org/ and http://my.opera.com/h2earth/blog/cybrarium but none of you or the other visitors to this site would have seen this information. I wanted to bring this information to the inventors, amatuer and pro who visit this site who could possiblly make a breakthrough. Some of the greatest inventions in history were discovered by amatuers on accident.

    Zero-Point energy proof: 10^93grams/cm^3

    4. C. Misner, K. Thorne, and J. Wheeler, Graviation, W.H. Freeman and Co. (1970)
    Chapters 43 and 44 contain description of zero-point fluctuations and superspace.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  18. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    I like the almost awesome Daniel Dingel site :)

    It would appear that photo is from 1983! Guess he's still got some bugs to work out.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  19. philba

    philba New Member

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    Firewater, you may be on to something. I think you should go for it and invest all your savings. Good luck and don't forget us little people when you are a multibillionair!
     
  20. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  21. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The car with a steam engine needs to have a big fire to heat the water. Does it burn coal?
     
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