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electronic rust protection for cars

Discussion in 'Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews' started by rayr5, Feb 12, 2005.

  1. arrie

    arrie New Member

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    Yip,

    I seem to have had it right. Motorbikes eat alu for their frames.
    But it also seems cro-mo for cycles have come and gone, alu-alloy and carbon fibres are preferred.

    CroMo composition:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromoly

    There, your rust problem is solved, cut out everything steel (use a grinder) in your car and replace it with a combination of alu, alu-alloy, SS, cromo and carbon firbe.

    Good luck.
     
  2. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    My information came from an aircraft builders' site and is presumably specific for 4130. It may be a regulatory thing and may vary with alloy of the brazing rod, but I felt it was worth noting. Also, remember silver/hard soldering and brazing are slightly different processes. Some bikes etc. may actually be silver soldered.

    There are some relatively new silver solders that are user friendly and quite strong. I was sent a sample by Lucas-Milhaupt last year (Easy-Flo3 #503) and tested it on some 300 series stainless tubing. It was almost as easy as soldering with 63/37 lead solder on clean copper. It gave the best wetting and flow I have seen on stainless. The joints could not be broken and remained malleable.

    John
     
  3. dknguyen

    dknguyen Well-Known Member

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    It's used for pipes, tanks, and building structures I believe.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    Back in my day they both used plain steel tubing (with the exception of the Aerial Arrow - which didn't use tubing at all). Motorbike tubing was a bit thicker and fatter walled, that was all.

    Modern bikes, and motorbikes, are made of all sorts of weird and wonderful materials.

    A neighbour of mine works at a large local motorbike sales and service place, I was talking to him the other year, and they had a recall on a particular expensive model (I think it 'might' have been a Moto Guzzi - something fairly exotic anyway). What needed replacing was the rear swinging arm, which was a single arm rather than a twin, with the suspension right at the front, so it had to be VERY sturdy. Apparently it was a real rotten job to do, but the mechanics didn't mind, because it was made from Titanium, and they got £80 as scrap metal for each one! :D
     
  6. BaCaRdi

    BaCaRdi Member

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    AMEN, Braising or a TIG weld has much better penetration then say MIG/ARC resistance wielding etc.

    -BaC
     
  7. BaCaRdi

    BaCaRdi Member

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    Ahh yes, that right, now I am getting those neurons working..lol

    -BaC
     
  8. sammy004

    sammy004 New Member

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    Canadian tire has something like for this
     
  9. arrie

    arrie New Member

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    But how can titanium be defective, wait a minute, I remember now, my pilot buddy had a bird strike on take-off one day and had to abort - standard procedure.
    He was at some smallish RSA town, so they had to wait for the repair.
    He wandered to the mechanics while repairing the turbine, and was shocked to see the titanium blades chipped and one slightly bent.
    The aircraft mechanic was also flabbergasted to see that.
    It prolonged the repair and was very unpleasant, but that's a fact.
    The bird was an hadeda, if you know it, maybe local to this forest, I don't know, but rather large and very slow to get out of the way.
     
  10. zeebra

    zeebra New Member

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  11. canpower

    canpower New Member

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    Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum, specifically because I'm looking for a schematic for a rust inhibitor type of device, winter is coming, and my Ford minivan has decided to lose weight this ear...lol.

    Ever since moving from Vancouver island to Nova Scotia, there has been a steady increase in the amount of rust on the van, ESPECIALLY on the rokker panels, so, I'm hoping that one of these devices might help out, even if just a little bit, or slows down the rust process.

    I clicked on the link provided here, and read the badly broken english post, trying my best to make sense of it, I think I get it, "except" for the part about the anode and cathode.

    I'm "assuming" he means that you have 2 peices of metal, which can be iron or steel, but I'm confised about the "mounting" proceedures described, well, basically, there "aren't" any...lol

    It only says:

    "It is important to make sure that electrodes didn’t short-circuit."

    What exactly is meant by this?

    Are the anode and cathode to be mounted on the frame of the vehicle, but "isolated" from it, using a rubber grommet for example? Does it mean that neither electrode is to make contact with the vehicle chasis?

    Or is there only "one" electrode needed, while the other is grounded to the chasis? I don't think that is the way it is supposed to be, wouldn't make sense to me if it was, but I have to ask!

    I started out looking for the scematic for a device like the one shown here,

    RustStop Electronic rust protection and rust prevention.

    but if it's as simple as the one with the 2 910-OHM resistors and a couple of electrodes, I'm more than happy to give that a try.

    I don't suppose anyone "has" the schematics for a device such as the one on the rust stop page?

    Thanks!
    Chris ;)
     
  12. canpower

    canpower New Member

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    Doesn't ANYONE here have any info they would like to share with me?

    All I was REALLY hoping for was an answer about how the electrodes were connected, hope someone here can help.
    Thanks ;)
     
  13. mneary

    mneary New Member

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    Might have to wait a while to find somebody who actually believes the claims.
     
  14. canpower

    canpower New Member

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    What "exactly" does that mean mneary?

    Was that a sarcastic reply, or a serious one?

    I thought by the nature of this thread, that there were some people out there wo were actually serious about building such a circuit, or at least experimenting for themselves, such as myself.

    Possibly I was mistaken.

    I just thought there was a good chance to be able to relate to some like minded individuals here that migt be interested in helping a guy out who wants to learn something about all of this kind of thing.
     
  15. shokjok

    shokjok Member

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    I've seen an episode of Mythbusters showing how a resonant frequency can vibrate a bridge, and how ultrasonic transducers can be used to remove ice from metallic objects ( vehicles, bridge rails, etc.). I haven't put these theories to the test.
     
  16. canpower

    canpower New Member

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    Thanks for the reply shokjok!

    Yes, in my opinion, frequency is the key to just about EVERYTHING in our known universe, more important, "resonant" frequency.

    I was involved with the works of Dr Royal Rife many years ago, and myself did some experimentation with the Rife beam ray therapy devices, and was involved in the design and implementation of the solid state version of the device, and was in fact able to "see" with my own eyes, microorganisms basically exploding when exposed to their own resonant frequency, it's quite amazing when you think of the far reaching implications.

    I hadn't really thought of "rust removal" in terms of a resonant frequency approach, but thought more of an electrolosys approach to the problem of rust on a vehicle.

    The first thing I thought of was "why" an electronic device was even needed, when if you look at a boat motor in salt water for example, a simple zinc disk affixed to the motor shaft is sufficient to cause all the corrosion caused by the electrolytic process to be attracted to that zinc disk, instead of the boat motor.

    Why then can't we just add a few zinc peices directly to the chasis of the vehicle, afterall, it IS salt water (melted snow and road salt) that is causing the rust corrosion in the first place right?

    Anyone have any thoughts on this concept?

    Really, all I kinda wanted to know when i started this post was how the electrodes in the page quoted here were mounted, does anyone know exactly how? Please read my first post here in this thread and comment on it if you do, thanks!!
    ;)
     
  17. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Electrodes need to complete a circuit of sorts for there rust inhibiting effect to work.

    Those zinc electrodes work well on a boat motor while they are in the water but are completely useless once its on dry land!

    Rusting in an air based environment is different than that of a water based environment.
     
  18. mneary

    mneary New Member

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    There are some that have said they would experiment. Those of us who don't believe it would work are not experimenting. To my kowledge nobody has returned with results.
     
  19. canpower

    canpower New Member

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    So with the electrodes in the following post posted a while ago:

    Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
    This is quite an old posting. To find our more, you guys can follow this link: Protect you car from rusting using cathode protection - Scientific, embedded, biomedical, electronics contents.


    It says "It is important to make sure that electrodes didn’t short-circuit."

    What do they mean by that?

    The original post refers to this location:

    Protect you car from rusting using cathode protection - Scientific, embedded, biomedical, electronics contents.

    It shows a plus and a minus connection, which go to the vehicle battery, and then there is an anode, and a cathode connection in the schematic as well. Do these simply connect to a "sacrificial" peice of steel, or whatever material you choose, and those electrodes are connected or bolted "directly" to the vehicle chasis at far distances apart?

    Is that what they are trying to display in the schematic, meaning by "don't short circuit", that the electrodes should not "directly" touch, but CAN be mounted DIRECTLY to the chasis of the vehicle, at a fair distance away from each other?

    Or are they saying that one or BOTH electrodes must not come into contact with the vehicle chasis at all?

    Obviously SOME connection to the vehicle chasis MUST take place, otherwise what's the point of the circuit...lol.

    I just want some clarification about how the electrodes are connected, that's all!

    ;)
     
  20. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yep. Rust takes a while so be patient.

    Besides things just wear out eventually any way. Sit back relax and let nature do its thing its going to any way.
    And in a way rust is a good thing. Without it some people would otherwise never get their piles of crap off the road! :D
     
  21. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

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    You could just put the car up on a lift, clean the crap out of the under carriage and then spray it with zinc rich paint.
     

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