Coil Drive Circuit Confusion

[woodlandman]

I am planning to build a nine core pair eight magnet muller motor to drive a generator. they are all drive cores and will not be harvesting any excess power except to dump bemf back on main buss. i will be using square wire in the 14 to 18 awg range in bifiller wound set up around 72 to 100 volts. it will fire 81 times in one revolution so if my reserch is correct this magnet moter will be insanly powerfull .i have every thing lined up except i am confused about the drive circuit.it will be strickly dc no ac so i guess my question is should i use the high low driver set up or should i use just one single mos-fet to drive the coil pair ? this is for my own personal use and not commercial as muller has patent. please help me with any and all comments or suggestions. i thank you all !

 

[MikeMl]

Since I have no idea what the Muller patent is, draw and post the motor coil configuration. I'm tying to see if you need three states of current flow through the coil; None, Forward and Reverse, or only two; Off and Forward?

 

[woodlandman]

Here is the set up. the green circles are are my stators and the dark circles are my neo magnets. and the other is the firing order. the second to the last one is high-low driver set up and the last one is a single mosfet set up. i know the last one is the easy one but will it drive it hard enough to get enough horse power to drive a generator ? like i said it will be strickly dc and my magnets are all facing same way as i dont want ac so will the duel driver still work also ?View attachment 68874View attachment 68876View attachment 68875View attachment 68877

 

[woodlandman]

ops the second to last is single mosfet circuit and last is high low circuit...sorry

 

[shortbus=]

You do know that this is just "over-unity" BS don't you?

 

[woodlandman]

I'm not trying to harvest any excess power so i dont give a darn about BS comments. im trying to get the correct circuit for my motor. and you my friend are sadly mistaken to the real world not what the establishment wants you to know so if you have nothing to contribute toward helping me and others like me please go some where else don't care how long you been on this post keep neg BS to yourself, thank you very much !

 

[woodlandman]

PS. thank you MIKE for you time

 

[ronv]

I would use the simple circuit. But you need more specs. From the sounds of it the circuit shown probably won't drive your coils without smoke.

 

[woodlandman]

i haven't done finall specs yet, componets will be upgraded to handle higher voltage. i guess what i am asking is witch one will drive a set of coils better single mosfet or duel mosfet high low set up ? the biggest punch to attract then repel magnets ?

 

[shortbus=]

Even the Muller family web site calls it over-unity- https://www.mullerpower.com/index.php

Without the "energy harvest" this is just a brush-less DC motor (BLDC) it needs to have an H-bridge circuit for each coil pair. It needs this because the coils have to keep changing polarity to keep the magnets moving. There are BLDC driver chips that can do this for you simply.

https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/12012/ONSEMI/MC33035.html

https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/12011/ONSEMI/MC33033.html

 

[woodlandman]

i do not think these will work and yes i will be harvesting all BEMF from all nine drive coils pairs to dump back on main bus. no coil pairs will be used to collect excess out of system and yes you are basically right about it being a brush-less DC motor just no cogging and is fired 81 times per revolutionView attachment 68917 it will fire to attract neo then BEMF will send it on its way. i have a circuit design but my scanner is on the blink. is this setup, duel mosfet driver for ac or dc and will i be able to use it or not ?View attachment 68918 i will be modified to handle higher power. i will be posting simple drive circuit as soon as scanner is up...thand you all very much

 

[alec_t]

it will fire to attract neo then BEMF will send it on its way.

The BEMF has the same polarity as the applied EMF; so if one attracts the other will too.

 

[shortbus=]

The BEMF has the same polarity as the applied EMF; so if one attracts the other will too.

Right, that's why he'll need an more complex circuit than he is talking about. The polarity of the coils has to change to match the magnets.

Most plans on the net are theory type things that don't work with out more thought put into them. And this type motor/generator is still covered under the Law's of Physics. At least when used in this Universe.

 

[alec_t]

And this type motor/generator is still covered under the Laws of Physics. At least when used in this Universe

Agreed. Any power 'harvested' has to come from conversion of the kinetic energy of the rotor. That's how regenerative braking works!

 

[woodlandman]

It just dawned on me this morning that you are right again and i thank you very much for your input. so this circuitView attachment 68929 is the correct one for that set up...meaning it switches polarity ie...high side fires then low side fires causing a reversal of polarities correct ? and shouldn't the hall sensor have resistors on power and ground to protect it from spikes floating it ?

 

[alec_t]

high side fires then low side fires

That circuit includes the text "Q1 and Q2 fire simultaneously"!

 

[woodlandman]

what if i used a duel mosfet driver ? does the high and low side fire one after each other ? im new to electronics and my brain is out of town on job so im trying best i can. what can i use to fire the coil pair fron one side then fire from other side ???? this would solve my problems, that way the polarities would change in a pull/push fashion but would have to fire one after another. i thank you guys for your time and appreciate your help!

 

[alec_t]

does the high and low side fire one after each other ?

If they did, with no overlap in their duty cycle, then there would be no coil current

 

[woodlandman]

why no current ??? confusion sets in.

 

[shortbus=]

You need two dual drivers, known as half-bridge drivers. This will then make a "H-bridge". This is needed to switch the coil polarity back and forth, also know as "bi-polarity".

Your coils also need to be wound correctly for each coil pair. One of the pair needs to be wound clock-wise, the opposite coil needs to be counter-clockwise. This is to make the polarity match the magnets in the rotor.

It would be helpful if you would show a drawing of the motor schematic you are actually building. There are several different people making what they are calling a "Muller motor" but they are of different designs. Before spending too much time helping you, we should all be on the same page, talking about the same motor. The only way to do that is to see what YOU are actually trying to do.