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A Pedantic Question

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by jpanhalt, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

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    tvtech,

    If this topic is too heavy for you, then you should get off the train at the next post. No need to be miserable trying to understand what we are talking about. This thread is not for everyone. Only those interested in this topic should follow it. Let it go, TV. You will be a lot happier.

    I do listen to them. Then I evaluate what they said. And, after reaching a conclusion, I make a reply. That is the way it is supposed to work, right?

    Ratch
     
  2. anhnha

    anhnha Member

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    I completely agree though I can't understand most of these knowledge now but I intend to read them thoroughly some day.
     
  3. MrAl

    MrAl Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi,

    I agree that a free exchange of information is a good idea, but sometimes some people just dont want to listen to reason even when it is widely accepted. Then it starts to feel like you're talking to some jerk who lost their ability to reason or accept other people's facts or opinions as possibly better or more correct than their own.
    If they are presented with enough information contrary to their own opinion and they still wont recognize it, then you know they are just afraid to admit that they *might*, just might, be wrong this *one* time, even though it wont be the end of the world it they are wrong that one time about that one thing.
     
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  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi MrAl

    You teach and advize...I listen. Always.

    I regard your advise here as true and accurate :D You never try and be smart. Because you don't have to be. You know it anyway. Nothing to prove to anyone because you feel the need to prove a point.

    Regards,
    tvtech
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  6. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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  7. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hey KV

    I chirped early on in that Thread. Clean forgot about it a while later....thank God ;)

    Thanks for bringing back the past ;)

    And I only managed to get to #26 page now...Heck those were the days that Danny (Brownout) was still around. I miss him. Solid, knowledgeable guy that knew his stuff backwards. As I recall he was a qualified EE with lots of experience. Was really sad to see him go.

    The sooner the day comes that forums Worldwide appreciate accurate and simple advise, the better.

    I stand under correction, but I heard somewhere that people that know stuff don't feel the need to prove it all the time. They are secure in their knowledge. Therefore....they don't post just to "start discussions".

    People that know stuff help and guide those that need it. And never act clever. They have nothing to prove.

    The hopelessly Pedantic one here is an intellectual Troll. He knows certain members will always fall for his ways...and then threads become complicated and he is happy.

    I wonder what his qualifications are???. I don't believe anyone has questioned this yet.

    Best regards,
    tvtech
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  8. nsaspook

    nsaspook Well-Known Member

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    I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, does that count?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jo_x7ecIFg
     
  9. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  10. steveB

    steveB Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I don't think the issue is qualifications. The problem I see is that, all too often, we (myself included) use words and opinions rather than references, experiments and mathematical proofs. The problem is that it is much easier to state opinions that we believe are facts, rather than taking the time and effort needed to establish proof to someone who does not yet have that experience. But, if we don't provide that proof, how can someone else judge? It becomes a he-says she-says battle of words. Who can be believed? It should not be majority wins, or lack or qualifications looses. It needs to be scientific standards applied. I think providing references to well-accepted scientific texts/journals is a valid proof, and should take priority over opinions in words from anyone here, no matter what their credentials. Next, someone here with good experience or credentials is free to provide experimental data/analysis or mathematical analysis/calculations to prove a point. In this way, we can evaluate claims as a group, much the same way scientific journals are reviewed.

    However, this is time consuming. Personally, I've taken the time to provide detailed experimental and mathematical evidence in other forums (never here I don't think). The time required is considerable at typically over 1 week of full time work to do an adequate job, and requiring over 10 pages of writing, plots and analysis. Then, it can be really frustrating when naysayers in the thread dismiss even that at a glance, but then the truth and proof is there to a scientific standard for all to see. Let's not forget than many scientific facts are not accepted by many people, so we are never going to convince everyone of something that has been proven with scientific rigor. Also, any scientific fact is still open to criticism. It is not absolute truth, but just a reasonable viewpoint to hold on to, based on preponderance of evidence, and the underlying assumption that the thing we are studying obeys scientific laws.

    Anyway, perhaps a way to minimize the issues with some of these debates is for the moderators to hold us all to a higher standard. They should ask, "where is the reference?", or "provide the calculations", or "do the experiment and show the data". Going forward, I'm going to think more along these lines. Instead of arguing about words, I'll try to argue about mathematical analyses and interpretation of experimental results.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
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  11. MrAl

    MrAl Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hello again tvtech and Steve,

    tvtech:
    Well when i was much much younger maybe age 5 and above, i had no one around that i could ask a simple question like "what is a resistor" and even after i learned about the town library there were very few books on electronics there as it was a very small library. It was very difficult for me to visit other towns with larger libraries too because that took bus fair which i didnt have. I ended up riding my bike to other towns to read and buy small electronic parts, and that was pretty far away so it was very hard to do.

    So when someone asks a question now i guess i cant help but reflect a little on that time when i was in their place. I dont like to see them go without an answer so if i have the answer i like to supply it.

    We also end up in some interesting conversations too though so i cant totally knock the pedantic nature of some people. They do force us to look more carefully at the subject matter at hand and make sure we have all the facts straight and didnt make a mistake somewhere :)

    Steve:
    Well a lot of people here are hobbyists so i would not want to hold them to too high a standard, but when they wont acknowledge another opinion as being possibly true that's when i draw the line, unless they have real proof of the claim they are making. It's obvious that some people dont want to take others opinions as even possibly fact even when it is clear that other sites attest to the same basic concepts too and that seems like a fault in personality to me. Granted there are good points too as i was saying as it sometimes leads to interesting conversation, but there is a limit we reach when all points are rejected by default.
    Im sure we could discuss this at length too but i'll cut it short for now, and state that i do enjoy your posts as they are usually well thought out, very informative, and accurate :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
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  12. anhnha

    anhnha Member

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    Hi MrAl,
    You are so kind! You helped me a lot. I am surprised that you learn about electronics so early. I am only a beginner and the members of the forum teaches me a lot.
     
  13. MrAl

    MrAl Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi again,

    Well thanks much for the kind words, and i am happy i could help. I see you are keeping at it and that's great too. You'll soon know everything about this stuff :)
     
  14. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi Guys

    Debates are always good. I really do not want to stop them (not that I can) ;)

    Thing is, newbies asking simple questions are sometimes drawn into these. That for me = wrong. No easy solution here.

    Unless, of course, ETO sets a new Benchmark for Forums Worldwide...all that is needed is Moderation regarding threads....once a newbie's simple question has been successfully answered.....close the thread. Kill it. Never to be opened again.

    Those that choose to argue and continue must start their own thread/s.

    That way, the OP is happy and probably will visit again. Liking this valuable place that helped solve that little problem he/she had.

    Just a thought Guys. (Nigel, Eric and Ian I don't mean to give you extra work)

    Regards,
    tvtech
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  15. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

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    TVTech,

    Don't you think this subject belongs in the Site Issues and Feedback Sub-Forum?

    Ratch
     
  16. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Maybe Ratch

    I really don't know.....and I really don't dislike you. I am trying very hard to understand you though. That is all.

    You know, if you spent one ounce of your energy here helping instead of trying to be clever.....you would be a absolute asset to this Forum.

    Sure, people have to get involved when you are in the mood to prove a point. But most is not necessary.

    As much as I disagree with you and chirp, I will not throw you away. Because you are intelligent and have never spoken rubbish. You start changing things though in threads to suit your reasoning style...

    I as a kid here at the age 50 yrs would like to see you fly and become popular here....not to impress, but to prove your worth.

    Sit down and think about what I have said Ratch. Talk to yourself if necessary. And reprimand yourself if needed.

    All the best,
    tvtech
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  17. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

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    TVtech,

    Why do you have trouble understanding me? Most otherrs don't. They may not agree with me, but at least they understand what I am saying.

    Onto another subject.

    After the question is answered, why is it so bad if the thread moves on to another aspect of the subject? The OP does not have to read further after his queston has been answered. Why do you feel you have to be a nanny to the newbies?

    I already have thought about it when I reply. I am not in the habit of talking to myself. How do I reprimand myself? Give myself a spanking?

    Ratch
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  18. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Maybe Ratch, because they are vulnerable and looking for someone to hold their hand. Much like a Child venturing into the unknown.

    The OP knows NOTHING ....that is why they ask for help here.

    Make sense now???

    Regards,
    tvtech
     
  19. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

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    TVtech,

    No, they might not know the specific information they ask about, but it is presumptuous to assume they don't know anything about the subject. What about them just reading their answer, and not continuing to peruse the thread further? Do you have a problem with that?

    Ratch
     
  20. shortbus=

    shortbus= Well-Known Member

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    The thing about this thread is, Jpanhalt started it then walked away (laughing?).
     
  21. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    LOL shortbus...I think you hit the nail on the head :D

    I'm Outta this thread.

    Regards,
    tvtech
     

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