What do you guys think of affirmative action?

[quixotron]

What answer would you guys choose and why?

Is everyone aware of it?

1: It's good and necessary to offset the inequities of the past.
2: It's bad. It undermines the individuals right to equal opportunity.
3: Who cares?
4: huh?

I say 1. And precisely the reason being is to give minorities a chance to catch up. Is this reverse discrimination? Yes. But its by the white folks hand and not by the minorities. What do you guys think?

 

[killivolt]

Huh, Obviously you are an American but I believe in ..........

Truthiness Monkeys: (**broken link removed**)

This really becomes a Suedo Question - it's about some corruption at all levels.

Urban slang :suedo: stratified exphilliated colla-nepatheorium

A big slimy booger!

 

[HarveyH42]

Well, speaking as a white guy, who lost a considerable portion of financial aid for college, to Reagon's affirmative action BS back in the early 80's... and had to work a lot harder to pay my own way through school. I don't think it was or is the right thing to do. Everyone should be treated equal, and no one should receive special consideration based on race. An employer shouldn't have the government step in an tell them the a certain percentage of employees must be hired based on race, regardless of qualifications or experience. There are already laws against discrimination, so why is it right to give exceptions based on race?

 

[Papabravo]

I believe it devalues the accomplishments of it beneficiaries. How much is a BSEE, or an MSEE, or even a PhD worth if you suspect it was the result of affirmative action. I refuse to split those hairs, I'll just hire the white guy and be done with it. Before you start flaming I should like to point out that I am the owner of a small privately held business, and in 16 years the problem has never come up. There have been no minority engineers or technicians who have ever applied for a job. It is also true that we have never had the need to go recruiting in places where minority engineers and technicians live and work.

As a side note when I went back to school for a second MSE in 2001-2004 as a middle aged white guy I was surrounded by Asians. There were no young white guys, and no African-Americans, young or old. A great number of the Asians were women. Those women are consuming graduate school education like there was no tomorrow, while their husbands and significant others worked on their PhDs. They all paid out of state tuition, which I'm sure just broke the University of Michigan's teeny tiny heart. Some were supported by their governments in return for some period of indentured servitude, but quit a few had family money. None of them served as TA's or had any financial aid. These women were some of the smatest project partners I've ever had, and I was in high demand because I could write up the results. Cooperate to graduate!

Hire one of them? In a Michigan minute.

 

[theinfamousbob]

You really like to start controversial stuff, don't you?

I'd say option two; haven't read the existing posts yet, just wanted to get my word in and then catch up.

My family (both sides) immigrated here between around the end of WWI and the Great Depression. My great grandfather was killed by the mafia for not providing sugar for bootleg alcohol (he owned a small grocery store). They came and built from nothing, and I think it's bullsh*t (pardon the language; I usually try to keep it clean on here) that I should have to pay for stuff that's not even close to my fault or responsibility.

Plus, the situation already seems to exist. I'm paying a TON for school (depending on how things go I could have easily $60k in debt after my bachelor's). Some of my friends are getting TONS of aid just because of their race. We all know it; there's just nothing that can be done.

I just wish everyone would just say "You know what? We're basically the same. Let's just act the same."

Too bad life isn't like that. Oh well.

There's my (probably quite skewed) viewpoint; being a college kid and all...

 

[killivolt]

Voice

At least you choose to have one. (Now elections come use it)

 

[bloke_man]

Affirmative action may work well in a dictatorship but for my money I'd stick with Positive reinforcement.

and I am neither black or white...I guess you would call my colour / race = HUMAN!!!

 

[quixotron]

I believe it devalues the accomplishments of it beneficiaries. How much is a BSEE, or an MSEE, or even a PhD worth if you suspect it was the result of affirmative action. I refuse to split those hairs, I'll just hire the white guy and be done with it. Before you start flaming I should like to point out that I am the owner of a small privately held business, and in 16 years the problem has never come up. There have been no minority engineers or technicians who have ever applied for a job. It is also true that we have never had the need to go recruiting in places where minority engineers and technicians live and work.

As a side note when I went back to school for a second MSE in 2001-2004 as a middle aged white guy I was surrounded by Asians. There were no young white guys, and no African-Americans, young or old. A great number of the Asians were women. Those women are consuming graduate school education like there was no tomorrow, while their husbands and significant others worked on their PhDs. They all paid out of state tuition, which I'm sure just broke the University of Michigan's teeny tiny heart. Some were supported by their governments in return for some period of indentured servitude, but quit a few had family money. None of them served as TA's or had any financial aid. These women were some of the smatest project partners I've ever had, and I was in high demand because I could write up the results. Cooperate to graduate!

Hire one of them? In a Michigan minute.

The asians and indians are definitely sucking up education. I doubt it, there are ten hispancis and ten blacks in my ECE dept. The rest, roughly 50% are whites.

I was asking myself why are hispanics and blacks so prevalent in the manual labor and entertainment industry? but severely lacking in the sciences. sure there are some, but no where near white, asian and indian numbers.

Is it because they dont want to or cant? I dont know whats the cause for such a disparity.

But, i do think its right to help balance the power, to a certain degree of course. you cant put a minority in for a position if he's not qualified. but, suppose a black and white guy apply for a job, and the white guy is slightly just slightly more qualified, I would hire the black man. the white guy has too many unfair advantages in the past and even up until now. something has to offset that in order to restore control and balance.

and thats my main reason for voting for obama, he's black and whites have been in control for FAR TOO LONG. there is no voicepiece for minorities at all at the executive level. but anyways...

Especially now, at work, im the only hispanic that i am aware of thats in my building. one black guy, who is african. the rest are indians and whites. a few asians. but definitely a disparity.

something is wrong with that!!!

 

[killivolt]

I'm glad to hear you have the voice. And you have given it a good argument.
However I'm not sure about the venue. We should be very careful with our intent as to the nature of these things my wife's black you are talking a good talk, but be very careful. I'll not be saying anything further you can put water or gasoline on a fire it's our choice .......................

 

[Pommie]

But, i do think its right to help balance the power, to a certain degree of course. you cant put a minority in for a position if he's not qualified. but, suppose a black and white guy apply for a job, and the white guy is slightly just slightly more qualified, I would hire the black man. the white guy has too many unfair advantages in the past and even up until now. something has to offset that in order to restore control and balance.

I would listen to what both had to say about themselves and their ability to do the job. The one that I thought was the fittest for the job would get it. Anyone that chooses on colour, race, age, sex, religion, height, weight etc is just foolish.

Mike.

 

[dknguyen]

Indeed. Tread carefully. Some people may be more sensitive than they make themselves out to be.

 

[ronsimpson]

For 4 years I worked for a company that took some government money. There for 1/13 employs had to be “black”. We stayed at 12 employs. Could not find a qualified minority and the boss said he was unwilling to hire a minority to ‘stay at home’. Affirmative Action in action.

 

[phalanx]

I would listen to what both had to say about themselves and their ability to do the job. The one that I thought was the fittest for the job would get it. Anyone that chooses on colour, race, age, sex, religion, height, weight etc is just foolish.

Mike.

Quod erat demonstrandum

Qualifications, ability to learn, and good rapport with others are what I look for.

The concept of preferential treatment for current generations as reparations for the mistreatment of previous generations is ludicrous.

 

[dknguyen]

Quod erat demonstrandum

Qualifications, ability to learn, and good rapport with others are what I look for.

The concept of preferential treatment for current generations as reparations for the mistreatment of previous generations is ludicrous.

Assuming that the mistreatment of previous generations isn't holding back the current generation on any level. Either way, exceedingly difficult to gauge.

 

[Hero999]

What do you mean by affirmative action?

Going by this thread, it seems to be an Americanism for constructive discrimination. In which I don't think I've every heard of anything as stupid as constructive discrimination. When you look at it one way I can see the logic "the people who you employ shall represent the local demographic" but in practise, it's just impractical and plain foolish do do this.

The only thing that should affect you getting the job is your ability to do the job in question, nothing else. The idea that "Oh, we've got to employ a black person now because we don't have any black people working for us" is stupid and will increase racial tensions.

 

[quixotron]

For 4 years I worked for a company that took some government money. There for 1/13 employs had to be “black”. We stayed at 12 employs. Could not find a qualified minority and the boss said he was unwilling to hire a minority to ‘stay at home’. Affirmative Action in action.

that was stupid and a clear confirmation of his racist policies. the result, you guys lost out on government money because you dont want a black guy in your "club house."

 

[killivolt]

Stirring the pot ?

Ok, Let's just slow down apparently you have lost site that this site is supposed to be about things not related to this subject. It takes away from the uniform agreement of the love for electronics ?

What's the point of stirring up this pot ?
Is there some sort of motivation for this comment directed to someone who feel differently than you do.

It's a free country I'm just a small part in the big picture and this is not the place to solve it. Do it at the booth pertaining to your own political agenda.

 

[phalanx]

that was stupid and a clear confirmation of his racist policies. the result, you guys lost out on government money because you dont want a black guy in your "club house."

Not hiring a (pick your minority) employee because they are not qualified for the position is a racist policy? You aren't the sharpest tack are you?

 

[quixotron]

Not hiring a (pick your minority) employee because they are not qualified for the position is a racist policy? You aren't the sharpest tack are you?

i sincerely doubt that they couldnt find any minority that is qualified. they either werent looking or didnt care.

yeah it never occured to him, that they could train the poor guy and still get the funding. both sides would win. most jobs require on the job training anyways.

and what the hell does "stay at home" supposed to mean? i hope its not what i think it is. they are perpetuating a hate crime, the crime is denial of employment and the disguise is: oh no qualification-therefore no job, no training and NO DAMN CHANCE, you colored @#$%^&*!

Thats what he really means!

 

[Torben]

i sincerely doubt that they couldnt find any minority that is qualified. they either werent looking or didnt care.

yeah it never occured to him, that they could train the poor guy and still get the funding. both sides would win. most jobs require on the job training anyways.

and what the hell does "stay at home" supposed to mean? i hope its not what i think it is. they are perpetuating a hate crime, the crime is denial of employment and the disguise is: oh no qualification-therefore no job, no training and NO DAMN CHANCE, you colored @#$%^&*!

Thats what he really means!

On-the-job training is just that: training specific to the job at hand. It has nothing to do with qualifications. Any job candidate can expect job training, but that is a long, long way from expecting the employer to provide an education for an unqualified applicant.

If the rules for the funding state that the 13th employee must be minority, and there is no qualified minority member applying for the job, then it is not the responsibility of the employer to just go find some random minority member and educate them up to the point where they have the basic qualifications for the job.

In short, job training and a qualifying education are in no way the same thing.


Torben