want to build data logger

[jerryf]

I want to learn about programming micro chips but cannot figure out where to start. I want to program a device that gets its input from a serial RFID Proximity ID Identification, looks up the related name in flat table stored in memory, displays name on lcd, receives keypad confirmation, gets date and time from onboard clock, stores the input key along with date and time to nonvolatile memory. Communicates with PC to upload lookup tables and download the input results.
I don’t know what pic to use much less what proto type board.
I am trying to find the compatible elements to help me proceed.
I am overwhelmed with the development board selection.
I see many add on boards. Are all of the add on boards able to be used with any of the development boards.
I need a basic compiler that will work with development board.
it would be nice to learn one compiler that we be compatitable with multiple development boards.
I want to develop without removing the chip to program it.
I think I want to store data to sd card.
I hope you can understand my dilemma and set me on the best road.

Thanks Jerry

 

[SMUGangsta]

Id check out www.mikroe.com for their mikroBasic language - very easy to learn.

They also make several development boards - but the joys of PIC programming is that you could program them is any board, by any manufacturer as the PICS have ICSP, so the programmer just talks directly to the chip.

I use a combination of a programmer of ebay for £3, a PICKIT2, a dev board, and loads and loads of breadboard - and they all interoperate fine.

MikroeBasic includes built in routines for MMC/SD reading as well as most other things, and you can download a fully functional version (2k code limit) for free.

 

[jerryf]

I went to futurlec.com and found
PIC18F4550 USB Development Board , LCD with Cable , DS1307 Real-Time Clock Mini Board and SD/MMC Mini Board which i think is all I need. Any thoughts on their devices.
do you think MikroeBasic would would to put this all together?
Thanks Jerry

 

[richard.c]

Hi,

Think you should see WizzBalls recent thread regarding that 4550 development board.
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/pic-board-problem.84973/

Basically it allows you to load a program from a pc into the bootloaded 4550 chip - although WizzBall could not get it to work.

More importantly it is NOT a programmer - you still need to buy and connect a Pickit2, ICD2 or similar programmer.

If you havn't done so already, have a look back in this forum for opinions on starter systems - and many routes you can go - many compliers are free.

Sounds like you should be looking at the 18F45xx/46xx range of chip which is ideal for most vendors versions of C etc

Think you choice of development board will depend if you want to build up one from parts/ components as you progress or buy a bells and whistles ready made one from the offset, there are some good ones out there - but suggest you should ask for a second option here when you have selected one or two.

hth

Richard

 

[jerryf]

The Junebug
PIC-USB-4550
https://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2125

this seems as basic as I could get. It looks like as it has the power supply, a usb connection, icsp connector to use with the junebug and lots of space with pads, to add my specific parts

is this a viable start
Thanks Jerry

 

[BeeBop]

Hi Jerry,

I would agree on the Futurlec development board; leave it alone. The real time clock board and the other peripheral boards and LCD from them are alright, though. I would disagree with anything from Mikro, though (their products work together, and don't work with MicroChips tools, so if you buy one of their products, they want you to buy all.) You also will learn less. If you really want to learn, then start in assembler with these tutorials:
WinPicProg Page

As for a development board, you could follow Nigel's hardware (in above linik) of get yourself an Olimex board from SparkFun:
SparkFun Electronics - PIC
They are much better than the futurlec boards, and made for ICD2 or PICkitII

You should also search this forum for the Junebug or PICkit clones to use as a programmer.

You have some great ideas, but you should learn to walk before running. If you can flash an LED, you can control the world. Get your first LED blinking, then move on from there; an LCD, read the RTC, communicate with a PC... It would be possible to do your project all in mikrobasic, but you would have learned only mikrobasic, and not the microchip PIC.

 

[SMUGangsta]

I would disagree with anything from Mikro, though (their products work together, and don't work with MicroChips tools, so if you buy one of their products, they want you to buy all.) You also will learn less. If you really want to learn, then start in assembler with these tutorials:
WinPicProg Page

As for a development board, you could follow Nigel's hardware (in above linik) of get yourself an Olimex board from SparkFun:
SparkFun Electronics - PIC
They are much better than the futurlec boards, and made for ICD2 or PICkitII

You should also search this forum for the Junebug or PICkit clones to use as a programmer.

You have some great ideas, but you should learn to walk before running. If you can flash an LED, you can control the world. Get your first LED blinking, then move on from there; an LCD, read the RTC, communicate with a PC... It would be possible to do your project all in mikrobasic, but you would have learned only mikrobasic, and not the microchip PIC.

i guess you have something personal against mikroe as most of that top paragraph complete nonsence

I use MPlab to debug projects, i write programs in mB and edit the assembler in MPlab if need be.

since when was assembler a basic language???

this project could be competed in minimum amount of time in mB, including the MMC/SD card bits - weather or not a mE development board is used.

So far i have never had any compatibility problems using mB with other peoples dev boards or vice versa - using other peoples compilers with the microe dev boards.

Oh and in mB you still have to address all the registers using there name as microchip use, you still need to turn off peripherals your not using, and you still need to program the config etc - how is that not learning 'pic'

 

[jerryf]

Here is where I'm at now

Thanks Guys
The PIC-USB-4550 is the Olimex board.
I spoke with the gentleman at blueroomelectronics on the junebug (which I thinkn I will buy) he was touting a unicorn board, but I don't see any advantage (other than some bells and whistles I don't need and I don't see and room to add my devices.
I have further decided that PICBASIC PRO will be my development langauage, it will intergrate with the mplabs and design studio
I will start with hand assembler, I have the instruction set..I want to see what I can do with that to control the chip.
I need to settle on clock chip most likely a dallas chip and any input appreciated.
I have seen posts on a chip to write to the sd memory..any input appreciated
This is where I'm at now, just down want to jump off before I know where I'm going.
Thanks Jerry

 

[BeeBop]

i guess you have something personal against mikroe as most of that top paragraph complete nonsence

I use MPlab to debug projects, i write programs in mB and edit the assembler in MPlab if need be.

since when was assembler a basic language???

this project could be competed in minimum amount of time in mB, including the MMC/SD card bits - weather or not a mE development board is used.

So far i have never had any compatibility problems using mB with other peoples dev boards or vice versa - using other peoples compilers with the microe dev boards.

Oh and in mB you still have to address all the registers using there name as microchip use, you still need to turn off peripherals your not using, and you still need to program the config etc - how is that not learning 'pic'

My post was in no way designed to insult you; it seems like you may feel that way, do you? Sorry if you feel that way.

I missed that the OP was looking for BASIC, however, I would still recommend learning some assembler first, so that when a person runs into difficulty, they have the knowledge they need to solve the problem on their own.

Those tools don't work in MPLab, do they? You have to use their IDE, then go to MPLab to use your ICD or PICkit, do you not? There are a lot of other compilers out there which DO integrate into MicroChip's tool chain seamlessly.

The part of them which prevents you from a deep understanding are the built in functions and libraries. Do you have access to their source files? They do a lot of 'magic' behind the scenes.

I'm not a BASIC user, but if I was to recommend any I would recommend Swordfish.

 

[BeeBop]

Thanks Guys
The PIC-USB-4550 is the Olimex board.
I spoke with the gentleman at blueroomelectronics on the junebug (which I thinkn I will buy) he was touting a unicorn board, but I don't see any advantage (other than some bells and whistles I don't need and I don't see and room to add my devices.

You made an excellent choice on that junebug. In fact, you could put off ordering the development board for a while as the junebug comes with an 18F1320 (IIRC) on board, which you can program.

The Dallas real time clock module from futurlec would also be a good choice as it comes with a crystal and battery wired up. Perhaps you should check the mikro site to see if they have something equivalent at a better price.

I just checked; they do, but it is 21$, rather than the 8$ futurlec wants. Be aware, though, that futurlec can take quite a bit of time to get your order to you. They are not for everyone.

I took a look at the peripheral boards offered by Mikroe, and some of them look like pretty good deals... worth a look, anyway.

 

[jerryf]

I was off looking at the DOSonCHIP at sparkfun.
I wonder if the have anything so I could use with picbasic.
I have some sample code from picbasic to write to sd cards.
Anyone had any experience with the DOSonCHIP..
There is a rtlclock in the chip and instructions for get date and time
hopefully I can use that to get my time..
the DOSonCHIP is address thru UART and SDI. I Want to reserve
the uart for my data input. I dont know what SDI is ..yet
oh yea can I use the USB to input data and still use it to communicat with PC
Any help appreciated
Thanks Jerry

 

[BeeBop]

I was off looking at the DOSonCHIP at sparkfun.
I wonder if the have anything so I could use with picbasic.
I have some sample code from picbasic to write to sd cards.
Anyone had any experience with the DOSonCHIP..
There is a rtlclock in the chip and instructions for get date and time
hopefully I can use that to get my time..
the DOSonCHIP is address thru UART and SDI. I Want to reserve
the uart for my data input. I dont know what SDI is ..yet
oh yea can I use the USB to input data and still use it to communicat with PC
Any help appreciated
Thanks Jerry

Is that, perhaps, SPI, Serial Peripheral Interface?

Have you seen this thread:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/ic-for-mass-storage.85951/

 

[richard.c]

Hi,

Think most folk will agree that the Junebug is a good choice - however your choice of the Olimex unit as a development board leaves me a bit baffled.

Its the same kind of bootloading board as the Futurlec one - but just comparing the two boards together - simply cannot see why you would spend $12 less buying the rather crude looking Olimex unit, when the Futurlec one has the breadboard, all the port connectors, switches, trimmers, leds etc etc.

 

[BeeBop]

Hi,

Think most folk will agree that the Junebug is a good choice - however your choice of the Olimex unit as a development board leaves me a bit baffled.

Its the same kind of bootloading board as the Futurlec one - but just comparing the two boards together - simply cannot see why you would spend $12 less buying the rather crude looking Olimex unit, when the Futurlec one has the breadboard, all the port connectors, switches, trimmers, leds etc etc.

Hi Richard,
I have been doing this kind of thing for several years now, and own quite a few of the Olimex boards, and a couple of the (albeit earlier) futurlec boards. The Olimex boards are NOT bootloaded; they have an ICD2 interface built in, as the newer futurlec boards claim to have. The earlier boards I have from futurlec sit in my junk box, because they were troublesome to program using the futurlec programmers which came with them. Yes, all the LEDs, buttons, and connectors are nice (although they use the cheapest of parts,) but the boards were a hassel to use. The Olimex boards worked fine, even though I had to add whatever switches and LEDs I wanted. I do agree that the small breadboard is useful, but one this size can be added to any board for about $3.

When I first saw the futurlec boards, I thought they would be great, but they turned out to be not so useful. I still like to shop there, they do have some great prices.

The board I use most of the time is one I bought in Korea, from a company which no longer makes them. The price was around $60, and I would recommend them if they were available. It looks like this:

Edit: PS, sorry it is a crappy photo!

 

[jerryf]

yes it is SPI, Serial Peripheral Interface?
What is that? is it available on the 18F4550?
Thanks Jerry

 

[BeeBop]

yes it is SPI, Serial Peripheral Interface?
What is that? is it available on the 18F4550?
Thanks Jerry

From the first page of the 18F4550 data sheet:

Master Synchronous Serial Port (MSSP) module
supporting 3-wire SPI (all 4 modes) and I2C™
Master and Slave modes

SPI is an easy one to bit bang if you don't have it in hardware, though.

Do you have the data sheet for your PIC yet, and are you reading it? If not you should take a trip to MicroChip's website and get it, and start looking it over.

 

[richard.c]

Hi

Originally Posted by BeepBop
I have been doing this kind of thing for several years now, and own quite a few of the Olimex boards, and a couple of the (albeit earlier) futurlec boards.

Thanks for that - fair comment - I was only going by the thier photos, just glad there is someone around who has good experience of them both.

From Wizzballs thread think you can see how many new starters are being lured into buying boards that are not what they think they are - although the adverts are accurate in their description - its a very understandable error.

 

[BeeBop]

Hi




Thanks for that - fair comment - I was only going by the thier photos, just glad there is someone around who has good experience of them both.

From Wizzballs thread think you can see how many new starters are being lured into buying boards that are not what they think they are - although the adverts are accurate in their description - its a very understandable error.

Well to be completely fair to futurlec, I should try out one of their new boards before I comment on it, but....

These days, though, I have more faith in my firmware, so building the hardware, then debugging it is not so bad. When I first started, I wanted at least one of the two to be 'known good.'