Toner Transfer method question.

[HarveyH42]

I picked up 4/$1, plain white, ceramic coffee mugs. Basic, generic, straight sides.
Figured I could transfer some graphics using the same PCB method. Now, the blue transfer paper is a little spendy to play with, and I use a laminator for PCBs.
Basically looking for some suggestions on paper that will leave a clean transfer. Thinking of try the Staples brand photo paper I got, before getting the good blue stuff. Transfer pretty clean, but seemed the backing got a little melty, like plastic (got a little concerned about my printer and laminator, so stopped using it after a couple of boards).

Also, will have to use the clothes iron to apply. Not sure how this would work on a curved surface, or if I'll be able to get enough heat to do the transfer on ceramic. Had some thoughts of cuting some sheet metal to size to cover the paper, held together with a couple of springs or a screw clamp. Either baking it the oven, or using a propane torch.

Anybody got any experience with this?

 

[Hero999]

Great idea!

Maybe magazine paper?

If you can use a colour laser then being able to print colour graphics would be quite cool.

If the toner sticks I don't think it will last very long before it chips off, perhaps you could cover it in a layer of varnish. Even so I don't think it will stand up to a machanical dishwashers so I think you'll need to wash it by hand.

 

[Sceadwian]

I'm asuming you're going to be using the toner only as a mask? The toner itself will scratch right off the mug after it's been transfered even with just casual contact. I think it's a bit of a bulky method. They sell image transfer kits like this for a few hundred dollars to do custom coffee mug's t'shirts etc.. with a real press. Would probably be a better investement in the proper hardware to do it that in it would be to spend the time to figure out how to do it at home, unless you have large amounts of time to try a lot of different methods.

 

[HarveyH42]

Hmmm. I would have figured the toner once fused in place, would be perminent, unless re-melted. No problem with the dishwasher, don't own one.

Few hundred to do a few coffee cups? Kind of wanted to do this with materials I already work with. Not really looking to start a new business, not really able to focus on any one thing for very long, interest vary too much. The purpose of this post, was to cut down on the trial and error time. I can't be the only one making PCB, wondering what else can be done with toner transfer. Basically got the urge while drinking coffee, and waiting for some boards to etch.

Guess I should have asked if toner is toxic, before getting too serious about doing this. Varnish would be a good sealant, but might melt the toner. Maybe clear acrylic, remember having some from when I use to paint, but been sitting in a box for years...

 

[3v0]

Visit the Pulsar site.

Frank (the owner) has an interesting method for doing high quality decals using toner transfer. I am impressed whit what this guy comes up with.

Even if you do not buy his kit you may find the instructions on his method useful.

Imagine being able to take your artwork, logo or any graphic off the web for that matter and perform 4 simple steps that will convert the image into a pressure-sensitive, rub-down decal, ready for application to your project, all in a matter of a few minutes... for under a $1!

The down side is the system is about $90. But you may be able to do the job without buying the entire system.

 

[Hero999]

Is far as I know toner isn't toxic. If you're worried about varnish dissolving the toner you could use spray on PCB conformal coating.

 

[mneary]

Is far as I know toner isn't toxic.

Generally correct. In the US, manufacturers of toner (and other consumer and industrial stuff) are required to have an MSDS available. (Material Safety Data Sheet)

 

[Hero999]

Toner is a plastic, generally most plastics are not toxic since they are inert and will not be absorbed into the body. Exceptions to this rule are plastics that contain toxic plasticisers (some PVCs do), resins dissolved in solvents and most plastics are harmful when ground into a fine powder which can be inhaled.

 

[mramos1]

I read somewhere of a fellow that uses acetone to transfer the toner and says it is better than an iron. I will see if I can find a link.

He transfer toner images (picture) and etches them on copper. He said he daps with cotton until the back of the paper is saturated and peels it off. Not sure if it works thought.

Also, the conformal spray is not cheap. But a sign shop might have a spray on varnish (UV protectant). I paid about $8 a can for it.


On paper, staples picture paper is the best, not photo paper. Photo paper leaves a mess of that gloss behind. With heat transfer that is.

EDIT: second fellows comment as you scroll down under the picture

**broken link removed**

I also want to try what the first fellow said, he does a lite etch on the copper before he irons the toner on.

 

[3v0]

This is a road that many others have traveled.
Why not use a system that works ?

I use Pulsar.
Others use the Press and Peel Blue Evandude posted a nice set of instruction about a week ago on using the P&P Blue. Pulsar has good instructions on their site.

Both systems bond a protective layer to the toner and produce a better result that you can get with toner alone.

Both system cost about US $2.50 per sheet or $0.25 per square inch.

You can find more info on Pulsar in this thread.

Then sheets of paper and transfer foil from Pulsar is $25.
I have heard of people paying up to $4 a sheet for P&P blue, the maker has it online for $33 for 20 sheets.

 

[HarveyH42]

Definately some good reading. For PCBs, I've been using the Pulsar paper and a 4" laminator for about a year now. Ususally with great results. Most failures appear to be from finger prints at the edges, but hasn't happened in a while, guess I learned to be careful.

Anyway, this thread was about transfering some graphics onto ceramic coffee mugs. I guess using any plain paper will leave some paper fiber embedded in the toner, so may have to go with the blue (hate to waste).
I'm still not to sure how well the iron will work on a thick, curved, ceramic surface. Been a while since I tried it with PCBs, but seemed to take a while for thin copper. Seemed kind of odd, the laminator only takes a few seconds, well 5-10 range anyway, instead of minutes with the iron.

Kind of looks like I'll need to just experiment a little and see what happens.

Oh, that Pulsar rub-on decal thing, sounded interesting, but a lot of trouble. The could have made it a little more clear, some pictures... I think I got the basics of it though.

 

[mramos1]

HarveyH42,

Did you read about the guy using acetone to transfer the toner?

 

[3v0]

I know we are getting a bit off topic.

.
I'm still not to sure how well the iron will work on a thick, curved, ceramic surface. Been a while since I tried it with PCBs, but seemed to take a while for thin copper. Seemed kind of odd, the laminator only takes a few seconds, well 5-10 range anyway, instead of minutes with the iron.

The diff is that the laminator uses a lot of pressure with the heat. The rollers do the trick. The Pulsar site has info about putting a dowel under the board while using an iron to simulate the pressure provided by the laminator.

.
Oh, that Pulsar rub-on decal thing, sounded interesting, but a lot of trouble. The could have made it a little more clear, some pictures... I think I got the basics of it though.

The site has a 5 minute video of the actual process.
Click on the picture at the top of .

I know the OP is looking for an inexspensive solution. I suggested he look at the Pulsar system to see if he could borrow some ideas.

 

[HarveyH42]

I use acetone to remove toner (got the big can). Might give that a try, but try to keep it's use to a minimal. The fumes, even outside, aren't very friendly to me, little concern about wearing contacts. I think it might be a little tricky to get the whole thing evenly saturated. But it might work okay for images, as it doesn't need to be as precise as graphics. I know cleaning boards, liquid toner that gets on anything (fingers, mostly) is fairly permenant for a while, even more acetone won't get your fingers clean.

Pulsar; did get a few ideas. Basically, except for the clear mylar and adhesive, pretty much have everything else. Basically, you are gluing the toner to a surface. They did mention something that got me real interested though. They made reference to ALPS printers, and I'm going to follow that a little and see what I turn up. I have an ALPS 1300, mostly use the dye-sub for printing digital photos. Oh, the stopped making the printers years ago, ribbons are are still availiable though. The Micro-dry ink ribbons are plasic like toner, have to see if it'll work with PCBs some time...

Anyway, got a cup of coffee in me, and ready to print something on some blue paper, going to try the iron first.

 

[Rolf]

Permanent transfer ...........

I picked up 4/$1, plain white, ceramic coffee mugs. Basic, generic, straight sides.
Figured I could transfer some graphics using the same PCB method. Now, the blue transfer paper is a little spendy to play with, and I use a laminator for PCBs.
Basically looking for some suggestions on paper that will leave a clean transfer. Thinking of try the Staples brand photo paper I got, before getting the good blue stuff. Transfer pretty clean, but seemed the backing got a little melty, like plastic (got a little concerned about my printer and laminator, so stopped using it after a couple of boards).

Also, will have to use the clothes iron to apply. Not sure how this would work on a curved surface, or if I'll be able to get enough heat to do the transfer on ceramic. Had some thoughts of cuting some sheet metal to size to cover the paper, held together with a couple of springs or a screw clamp. Either baking it the oven, or using a propane torch.

Anybody got any experience with this?

If you are looking for a system to make permanent (dish washer safe) transfers, the you have to look for a system that uses dye-sublimation.
See: https://www.shortcourses.com/how/transfers/transfers.htm
It requires lots of special equipment and supplies. inks, heat presses for mugs and flat items, as well as polyester coated mugs and other items. (It is all readily available) And all items must have a high polyester content or coating.
Just transferring toner to the surface of a ceramic item might be OK for a decorative item but that is about all. To illustrate what I mean, just take a fingernail and scrape the toner off a PCB, it comes off fairly easy.

 

[HarveyH42]

The clothes iron wasn't getting hot enough, think it would take a very long time. Guessing the whole mug needs to get hot.

So, I cut a piece of sheet metal (should have measured...), to covered the paper, was a little short, so wrapped some aluminum foil over the paper, then put sheet metal on top. Couldn't find large enough hose clamps (wonder what the hell I used them for...), so bolted some plumber strap over the sheet metal, made a pretty good clamp.

Put the whole mess in the cold oven, and cranked it up 300 degrees (really have no idea, old stove with most of the markings worn off).

The picture shows how it came out, and what I put on it (should have lightened it some). Only one small area didn't stick. Seems kind of permanent a as well, have to really pick at it to get any to come off.

The oposite side didn't do well at all, about 1/4 of it didn't transfer. Might have been I didn't wait until it was cool enough when I picked up that edge to see if it stuck.

 

[3v0]

Good work.

Maybe the problem is uneven pressure. If you could find some sort of rubber sheet to put between the sheet metal and the image? (?Silicone?) rubber comes to mind but I do not know how easy it is to find.

 

[Hero999]

Some swimming hats are made from silicone rubber which should tolerate 300°C for reasonable periods of time.

 

[Sceadwian]

Try a good cooking store. I have silicon reusable bakeing sheets which are just 8/12 X 11 sheets of perfeclty flat silicon, it's pretty thick though.