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# The paper wars: cheap magazine paper vs rip-off proprietary paper.

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#### Hero999

##### Banned
In my opinion, over priced proprietary papers such as Pulsar and Press 'n' Peel are a waste of money.

I think the whole idea of spending $1.50 on a piece of special paper silly when I can use magazine paper which is free. Magazine paper works for me every time, the only thing that could be improved is the soaking time but I don't think it's worth$1.50.

I get accused of derailing threads by bringing this up so I've decided to start a thread specifically for the purpose of this discussion.

Sorry if this has upset anyone, that was not my intention. Now I have my own thread for this, I promise I will not raise the proprietary paper vs magazine paper debate in any other thread .

I hope I don't accumulate too many red squares or infractions for this.

#### whiz115

##### Member
i agree with you... magazine paper in most cases is perfectly fine and the rest just over priced sheets!! excluding some cases where you need to do circuits with very thin rails which isn't so easy using magazines.

btw on the other thread... rofl said that you guys search for an easier and faster way to do your prints.. what exactly is easier and faster when dealing with glues and dextrins? most likely you're searching for alternative ways...

#### SPDCHK

##### Member
I too agree. In fact, I had better results with magazine paper vs. Press & Peel, and for the amount of money I paid for Press & Peel here in South Africa, I will never promote that stuff to any one

#### Dean Huster

##### Well-Known Member
I'm assuming that it has to be clay-coated (slick) mag pages. Has anyone tried parchment paper used for baking?

Dean

#### Hero999

##### Banned
Yes, I use clay coated paper, it works a charm.

Parchment paper is useless, someone else here has tried it too.

#### Rolf

##### Member
I'm assuming that it has to be clay-coated (slick) mag pages. Has anyone tried parchment paper used for baking?

Dean

I have tried it, you can't print on it! The toner slides right off.

Edit: I was of cause referring to the parchment paper, sorry for any confusion.

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#### 3v0

##### Coop Build Coordinator
Forum Supporter
Why are you conducting a Smear Campaign against Pulsar ?

How can you justify saying "rip-off proprietary paper"

No one is forced to buy the paper.

It does what it claims to do.

The company provides user support and will buy the material back if the customer is unhappy.

3v0

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#### Hero999

##### Banned
I don't have a problem with them, if they can make money from selling paper then good for them.

This is just my opinion, some agree with me, others don't.

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#### 3v0

##### Coop Build Coordinator
Forum Supporter
If you did not have a problem you would not be calling them a rip off.

rip-off - definition of rip-off by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
1.
A product or service that is overpriced or of poor quality.
2. Something, such as a film or story, that is clearly imitative of or based on something else.
3. A theft.
4. An act of exploitation.

Why the Smear Campaign ?

3v0

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#### Boncuk

##### New Member
There'll be peace in the valley some time (I hope).

Reichelt electronics' paper catalogues are said to work best.

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#### Hero999

##### Banned
3v0,
To me it's a rip off but if other people are perfectly happy with it then good for them.

#### HarveyH42

I get a minimal of 8 boards off that $1.50 piece of paper. Less than 20 cents a board isn't a high price to pay, considering that I don't have do it more than one time, before getting a good transfer. No soaking the board in water for 10 to 20 minutes, or more. There is no paper fibers to rub off with my thumbnail or toothbrush. My time isn't worthless, and 20 cent is dirt cheap for the amount of time it saves me. With a laminator and clean copper, it would tough not to get a usable board. It takes a lot of trial and error to get boards with an iron and regular paper. It's not just me, most every site I visited, while struggling to figure out a better way, had the same message. Maybe I abandoned too soon, who knows, maybe a couple of months, I could have found just the right paper, and mastered the heat, pressure, and time issues. Just not enough time or patience, and don't like to fail. Designing the board should be the greater challenge, not getting the board etched. One good thing about the pre-Pulsar boards, drilling the holes seemed like a much easier task... #### Pavius ##### New Member From the pov of a newbie (myself), i can say that i was happy to shell out for Pulsar. Most of the tutorials emphasize how much mileage can vary, it just puts you off. There are so many variables - the paper, the iron, the printer, the toner; not to mention the operator. There's no way you can recreate someone's exact tried and true environment. If i can minimize the risk of wasting my time and working with consistent, specially designed tools i will opt for it. In time i will experiment with different papers and such, but the knowledge of how a purposely designed paper behaves will help greatly in this process. #### 3v0 ##### Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter You have never purchased the product. Had they lured you in, took you money, and said sorry charlie, you could justify the ripoff claim. The policy of buying back the product makes that impossible. It would be a better policy to let the members who have actual experience speak to its merits or lack of same. 3v0 3v0, To me it's a rip off but if other people are perfectly happy with it then good for them. #### Hero999 ##### Banned I get a minimal of 8 boards off that$1.50 piece of paper. Less than 20 cents a board isn't a high price to pay, considering that I don't have do it more than one time, before getting a good transfer. No soaking the board in water for 10 to 20 minutes, or more. There is no paper fibers to rub off with my thumbnail or toothbrush. My time isn't worthless, and 20 cent is dirt cheap for the amount of time it saves me. With a laminator and clean copper, it would tough not to get a usable board. It takes a lot of trial and error to get boards with an iron and regular paper. It's not just me, most every site I visited, while struggling to figure out a better way, had the same message. Maybe I abandoned too soon, who knows, maybe a couple of months, I could have found just the right paper, and mastered the heat, pressure, and time issues. Just not enough time or patience, and don't like to fail. Designing the board should be the greater challenge, not getting the board etched. One good thing about the pre-Pulsar boards, drilling the holes seemed like a much easier task...
I think the ironing is the hardest part.

I think if you tried clay coated paper, thick enough for your printer to print on, you won't have any problems if you used a laminator.

You have never purchased the product. Had they lured you in, took you money, and said sorry charlie, you could justify the ripoff claim. The policy of buying back the product makes that impossible.

It would be a better policy to let the members who have actual experience speak to its merits or lack of same.

3v0

So far you've only criticised me for badmouthing Pulsar but I've badmouthed Press 'n' Peel too. Does this mean that you agree with me that Press 'n' Peel is a waste of money?

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#### dknguyen

##### Well-Known Member
This is starting to remind me about the overpriced audio cables thread...lol

#### 3v0

##### Coop Build Coordinator
Forum Supporter
Any criticism of you, if it exists, is unintentional.

3v0

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#### HarveyH42

##### Banned
I think the ironing is the hardest part.

I think if you tried clay coated paper, thick enough for your printer to print on, you won't have any problems if you used a laminator.

I did try some clay coated inkjet paper I had from old HP I gave away many years ago, didn't make much difference with the iron. I ordered the laminator, and later the same day, decide to try the Pulsar paper as well. Both arrived same day, about an hour a part. Haven't used the iron since, not even on cloths. Tried three other papers out of curiosity, but still had to rub off the pulp, except for the injet transparency which might actually work, just had a few edge traces that didn't stick. Might have been the copper wasn't clean enough. The plastic is coated, so the ink sticks to it. Only used a few sheets when I had an injet, but went with an Alps thermal transfer printer, so the inkjet paper and stuff has been on a shelf for a while.

So far you've only criticised me for badmouthing Pulsar but I've badmouthed Press 'n' Peel too. Does this mean that you agree with me that Press 'n' Peel is a waste of money?

I chose Pulsar over PNP because of the price, and there some posts I found about people have trouble with PNP. Think I made the best choice, but have never tried PNP, no reason to keep looking. Will probably try a few experiments, if something comes up that look promising, but it's unlikely to replace what I currently use.

#### Boncuk

##### New Member
This is starting to remind me about the overpriced audio cables thread...lol

Reminds me on my latest purchase, a 2ft coaxial adapter cable for my wireless modem.

It was priced US\$28.50.

#### Rolf

##### Member
I think the ironing is the hardest part.

The temperature has to be correct, right around 300°F should do it. And make sure the thermostat holds that temperature to +/- 25°F.

Just lay the transfer power down on the copper, lay a clean sheet of paper on top. If your iron covers most of the transfer, just place the iron on top and don't touch it for about a minute. Then turn the iron 90° and let it set there for another minute. When the two minutes are up do some ironing for about 60 seconds, this works for me.

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