Pliers/Cutters and Lap/Box Joints

[dknguyen]

I was just looking at electronic shearcutters and pliers...I noticed something about their use of box joints vs lap joints...

Pliers come in both the cheaper lap joint and the more expensive box joint. But all shearcutters seem to use lap joints. It's to the extent that even when the pliers and cutters belong to the same series, the pliers use box joints while the shearcutters use lap joints! The only exception to this I found was Erop.

I can't think of a reason why cutters and pliers that are supposed to be of the same line (and therefore supposed to be of the same features and construction quality) wouldn't use only box joints across the board or only lap joints across the board. Is there some inherent difficulty about making shearcutters with box joints?

 

[JimB]

An interesting observation.

I had always equated
Box Joint = Better = More expensive
Lap Joint = Not as Good = Cheaper

Tradionally pliers and cutters have been held together with a pin which assume must be inserted using force and heat.

Many of the newer tools are held together using a screw, I have some cutters which are built using this technique.
I think the screw which can be adjusted to give the correct operation and to take up any wear has to be a better solution than a box joint which is fixed and much more difficult and expensive to produce in the first place.

With better materials and better manufacturing techniques maybe the box joint has had its day?

Just my opinion.

JimB

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

With better materials and better manufacturing techniques maybe the box joint has had its day?

I would disagree entirely - I have a pair of Lindstrom side cutters (model 625D) at work, over 30 years old, used every day at work, and they will still cut a single hair right at the tips.

Damn good tools Lindstrom, but EXPENSIVE - and they haven't made the 625D's for many years now.

 

[3v0]

I would think the box joint is a better choice but more expensive to make. It distributes the forces much better then the lap. The forces in the lap joint are working to bend or eject the pin. The box joint is proper hinge.

 

[dknguyen]

Hmm, that sharpening part is true...except that a lot of the more expensive shearcutters have surfaces at the rear of the jaw that act as mechanical stops to prevent the cutting edges from being crushed so you couldn't really adjust it anyways if you decided to sharpen it.

 

[Sceadwian]

Grind the stop surfaces too.

 

[dknguyen]

How do they even put those pliers together anyways? One handle goes in between the slot of the other handle, but it's larger than the slot on both sides!

 

[Sceadwian]

It's three pieces formed together somehow.

 

[JimB]

I would disagree entirely - I have a pair of Lindstrom side cutters (model 625D) at work, over 30 years old, used every day at work, and they will still cut a single hair right at the tips.

Damn good tools Lindstrom, but EXPENSIVE - and they haven't made the 625D's for many years now.

Nigel, I think that you misunderstand what I am trying to say.
The best materials and production techniques of today are better than the best of 30 years ago.
Lindstorm stuff is very good, no doubt.

But have a look at their website, most of the cutters have a lap joint with screw, they do still make cutters with a box joint but only the very top range of cutters.
Look here to see what they say about the various joint types:


JimB

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Nigel, I think that you misunderstand what I am trying to say.
The best materials and production techniques of today are better than the best of 30 years ago.
Lindstorm stuff is very good, no doubt.

But have a look at their website, most of the cutters have a lap joint with screw, they do still make cutters with a box joint but only the very top range of cutters.
Look here to see what they say about the various joint types:

And accoding to that list, box joints are still the best - the modern screw technique is just a cost saving exercise.

 

[dknguyen]

Going to necro my own thread since I ran into my own thread doing the same research again and 8 years later, it looks like no one produces box joint or pliers cutters anymore. Not even the Lindstrom Supreme series. They are all lap joints now.

Tronex marketing materials emphasizes that lap joints are "much" better than box joints but never explains why. It's rather dubious.

EDIT: I found one manufacturer that does. Knipex. But their selection of electronic cutters is very small.

 

[large_ghostman]

I have some knipex cutters, expensive and honestly i think facom or lindstrom are better and around the same price. I do like the grip and feel of the knipex though. Mine where a gift or i wouldnt have got them, to be honest even a heavy hobby user wouldnt give them work they are built to take.

Unlike the fluke V x debate cutters go from all about the same performance to wow with a clear line dividing them. Despite what i said about knipex you can feel the difference in cut, hard to describe but they are really nice to use. Cost wise i dont have a decent reason to justify spending that on cutters, but if your doing fine work day in day out then i think you would quickly notice the difference.