Obama bin laden photos?

[3v0]

What timing? It's not October, so no possibility of a October Surprise. There is no significant political timing associated with the date of the operation. Whoever is making that suggestion is doing nothing more than muckraking. Those months were used for intelligence gathering and planning.

How can you even claim to have that level of info. And it would not be the first time a president used military action to boost his image.

I am not saying it is so. Thus the word suggested. Nobody here is sitting in on presidential staff meetings.

 

[nsaspook]

They had known about the hideout for months. Some have suggested the timing was political.

I think the timing was forced by Wiki-leaks documents from gitmo detainees being released that identified the courier and possible location of UBL. As was said before, we have know his location for years but believe we held back because of possible leads on NBC weapons others are thought to have and plan to use.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...-of-abu-faraj-al-libi.html#document/p5/a17091

The photos will be released due to FOIA request sooner or later. The DOD and CIA can't really classify a corpse with a hole in it's head.

 

[3v0]

That makes sense.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Anybode ever notice the title of this thread? Obama bin laden photos vs. Osama bin laden photos ? Which one was it supposed to be?

 

[bryan1]

So how can the Obamanation call shooting someone in the head at close range 'Justice', it was said he was unarmed and the common sense way would of been to shoot non vital organs to disable the person ready for capture. Were the orders to slay on sight and don't take any prisoners ????? If so how in this world can IT be called 'justice'. So if someone went up and shot the obamanation at close range saying under his orders my whole family was killed. would that be the same.

I am in NOWAY defending the other side, just the way it was carried out if any other country did the same thing it would be called an assassination. The way this has been handled does the US expect it's all finished???????

 

[3v0]

Their justice is based on "an eye for an eye". Big on chopping off hands for stealing and that sort of thing.

By their standards justice will require how many more deaths ? A pair or huge buildings too.

Perhaps justice is killing him and every one that follows in his path.

I do not know or pretend to know what is just in regards to a mass murder like this guy. What is too much. Where does it end.

It would be nice to just let it all alone. The last time we did that we ended up in WWII.

 

[Mikebits]

By their standards justice will require how many more deaths ? A pair or huge buildings too.

Actually it was more like two monumental 110 story buildings, the collateral destruction of all the surrounding buildings, part of the Pentagon, 3 airbuses, 343 dead firefighters, and oh! 3000 others dead.

 

[QuietMan]

I find it interesting that many people question the credibility in anything the USA does. The is something in some people that will see a conspiracy in anything.

Now the planner of 9/11 is dead we wait to see if there is any change in policy in Al Qaeda. If not then we kill the next one, and the next one, till they are gone or change their policy. This is war, which some folks, especially in the EU, seems to forget. I find it amazing that they would claim we should have arrested him. This is the same mentality that created WWI and II, IMO. People may disagree with this opinion, which is OK, but I don't see it changing much in the near future.

 

[ericgibbs]

I find it interesting that many people question the credibility in anything the USA does. The is something in some people that will see a conspiracy in anything.

Now the planner of 9/11 is dead we wait to see if there is any change in policy in Al Qaeda. If not then we kill the next one, and the next one, till they are gone or change their policy. This is war, which some folks, especially in the EU, seems to forget. I find it amazing that they would claim we should have arrested him. This is the same mentality that created WWI and II, IMO. People may disagree with this opinion, which is OK, but I don't see it changing much in the near future.

I take exception to that sentence, we have lost around 300 of our soldiers fighting in Afghanistan, along side the Americans.

We have had many civilians blown to bits in the UK by these murderous sods.

Every day we live under the threat of terrorist attacks in the UK.

So please get your facts straight before making these callous remarks, we in the UK are part of the EU.

EDIT:
A look thru the latter half of this link will be informative.
List of terrorist incidents in Great Britain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EDIT2:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10629358

 

[HarveyH42]

Actually it was more like two monumental 110 story buildings, the collateral destruction of all the surrounding buildings, part of the Pentagon, 3 airbuses, 343 dead firefighters, and oh! 3000 others dead.

9/11 wasn't the only attack on America, just the worst one. And we aren't the only country who has suffered large scale attacks either. Bin laden's death is still just a small achievement, but it's a positive step, and sends out a strong enough message, that we can find them.

It's a tough battle, since these terrorists, don't have an actual home country, they have to find one that is friendly or tolerant, or maybe just doesn't have the resources. Cooperation between countries, in this war on terror, is rough as well. I don't believe Pakistan likes terrorists, any more than we do, but they are strong and proud, and don't want the American's doing everything for them, nor do they want us shooting up the place, and the citizens. I would like to see some of the other countries be more willing to ask for our help, and share their intelligence, if the know or strongly suspect a active group, it needs to get stamped out quickly.

9/11 was gruesome, the war in the Middle East as well, ten long years of it, and who knows how much longer it will take. Would be nice, if bin laden was a good record keeper, documented everything, and everyone he was involved in, and we now have all those records. It would greatly speed things up. I still don't think the photos are being withheld for any of the reasons Obama gave, though they might seem reasonable, responsible, we have been through much worse these past ten years, have seen the photos, the videos, even seen it first hand. I live by, 'Nothing to hide, nothing to fear'. This victory belongs to the world, and should be shared entirely. It was quite an achievement, a major goal in the war effort. Maybe it is political, and Obama is just saving them for his campaign next year. Could be a useful tool, if released secretly, a leak, he could blame the Republicans.

Really think it odd, that every other detail about the operation, the intelligence, preparation, was released. I can understand withholding the sensitive documents, for further use, but the body pictures? There must be some other reason, something in the pictures, besides a simple corpse, that would be upsetting to the opposition, and not exactly the bullet wounds either. Too many people lost too much, because of this one man, and will want to see how it ended for him, to know it's more than just words.

 

[olly_k]

So how can the Obamanation call shooting someone in the head at close range 'Justice', it was said he was unarmed and the common sense way would of been to shoot non vital organs to disable the person ready for capture. Were the orders to slay on sight and don't take any prisoners ????? If so how in this world can IT be called 'justice'. So if someone went up and shot the obamanation at close range saying under his orders my whole family was killed. would that be the same.

I am in NOWAY defending the other side, just the way it was carried out if any other country did the same thing it would be called an assassination. The way this has been handled does the US expect it's all finished???????

Don't worry, it is mostly the the inward looking who cannot see how ironic this situation is. Basically by sanctioning this sort of 'execution without trial' only brings us closer to the terrorists level and is not the actions of a civilised, mature culture we are trying to portray ourselves (Westerners) as. Most people I have spoken too have not been surprised by this but were all shocked, especially watching the celebratory attitudes going on. I wonder who we can shoot in the head for Americans supporting and sponsoring the IRA all those years? We heard the Manchester bomb and there was American money behind that. Where is my 'eye for an eye' Well it seems we learnt a long time ago that violence begets violence, and talking to the other side, and educating the youngsters of next generations is the only real way to win these wars.

 

[nsaspook]

I take exception to that sentence, we have lost around 300 of our soldiers fighting in Afghanistan, along side the Americans.

I know full well of the level on cooperation and expertise the UK has given in these type of operations in the past and present. Most Americans have no idea of the scope and intensity of the covert side of the global anti-terror war that's really be active since the 1960s. The death of UBL is a dangerous point because some of the real crazies were being restrained by his forces under the guise of a unified attack plan, now those guys are free operators.

 

[nsaspook]

Don't worry, it is mostly the the inward looking who cannot see how ironic this situation is. Basically by sanctioning this sort of 'execution without trial' ...

In the 900 years since the Crusades both sides have progressed but it seems some are stuck in the 14th century.
It seems that "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

From a Muslim to Muslims | The Cardinal Principle Blog

 

[3v0]

I am not a war monger but can see we are living in a dangerous times.

There are a good number of people all over the world that think if we stop provoking the terrorists that they will go away. History tells us that will not work. People do not want bombs going off in their corner of the world and are willing give up the rest of the world to do it.

I can understand ericgibbs response. It would be wrong to paint with too wide a brush. I hope and expect that was not QuietMan's intent.

The way this has been handled does the US expect it's all finished???????

The history behind the phrase "peace in our time" illustrates how making nice will work out. If you don't know what I am talking about I suggest you examine Adolph Hitler's action prior to the invasion of Poland. If these people are not stopped we will have an unrestricted war, if not WWIII.

olly_k chooses to use past acts as justification to crap on the US. The world response to terrorism needs to be united. Anything less will encourage it. Make your choice.

@Mikebits I was aware of the words I used to describe the damage. I choose to be less specific.

 

[ericgibbs]

I know full well of the level on cooperation and expertise the UK has given in these type of operations in the past and present. Most Americans have no idea of the scope and intensity of the covert side of the global anti-terror war that's really be active since the 1960s. The death of UBL is a dangerous point because some of the real crazies were being restrained by his forces under the guise of a unified attack plan, now those guys are free operators.

hi,
I appreciate that input.

For better or worse the Yanks and Brits have been allies and fought side by side for about the last 100 years.

In any military/terrorist situation its good to know that you have support and someone who you can trust to watch your back.

If OBL had been taken alive, how much would it have cost the tax payer to put him on trial...... and then execute him.??

He certainly wouldn't have been found innocent , remember what happened with Saddam Hussein in Iraq

 

[olly_k]

Why have I crapped on the US? I really would rather you didn't jab at me like that and talk face to face like a MAN.
Lets be honest though, the US has sponsered many of these Terrorist groups for their own ends in the past (think where the Taliban originated they were very useful in fighting the Russians in Afghanistan!) we can say the same about MANY problematic Middle East countries Saddam and Iraq (he was helped by the CIA into power although I am ashamed what us Brits got up to their in the 100 years previous to this)) and the Iranian coup d'état in the 50's, which of course the UK was heavily involved! How can we go around the world claiming to be the moral brigade when many coutries have suffered at our hands, for our own ends? How can we not expect to be victim of hate and reprisals?
I have to admit that many of these countries are certainly no stranger to violence and civil unrest etc... However, I am prepared to accept there is an equally important opinion on both sides (so they shouldn't be allowed to have a say?) and I get the feeling many posters here think they should not allowed to have an opinion and the decisions the US, UK France etc make are for the their own good, they would never make decisions based on oil or other resources would they lol! (I am thinking a lot about WW1 for some reason right now!).

And just how does a united and active response on Terrorism work? Can you site succesful past examples, like with the IRA for instance, which you did not really offer any support with to us Brits? Where was the united front their? Also you mention past acts, no they are are not the past there is a wing of the (REAL) IRA that is VERY MUCH ALIVE AND ACTIVE, I hope no money comes from America for them. So back to unified attack on terrosism How are Israel's assaults on Palestine helping reduce the terrorism against them? I guess you can keep fighting until they have know one left to fight for them and no land to live on now that [Ih]would[/I] work! I think there is a name for that sort of thing too, can anyone think of the phraise I am looking for?

Oh yeah, Ethnic cleansing! Lets have some Ethnic cleansing round the world and get rid of all these backward nations! Best leave the ones without resources though, you know, North Korea, Zimbabwe etc.. They will be useful in some way we have yet to invent for the next fight...

 

[killivolt]

Why have I crapped on the US? I really would rather you didn't jab at me like that and talk face to face like a MAN.
Lets be honest though, the US has sponsered many of these Terrorist groups for their own ends in the past (think where the Taliban originated they were very useful in fighting the Russians in Afghanistan!) we can say the same about MANY problematic Middle East countries Saddam and Iraq (he was helped by the CIA into power although I am ashamed what us Brits got up to their in the 100 years previous to this)) and the Iranian coup d'état in the 50's, which of course the UK was heavily involved! How can we go around the world claiming to be the moral brigade when many coutries have suffered at our hands, for our own ends? How can we not expect to be victim of hate and reprisals?
I have to admit that many of these countries are certainly no stranger to violence and civil unrest etc... However, I am prepared to accept there is an equally important opinion on both sides (so they shouldn't be allowed to have a say?) and I get the feeling many posters here think they should not allowed to have an opinion and the decisions the US, UK France etc make are for the their own good, they would never make decisions based on oil or other resources would they lol! (I am thinking a lot about WW1 for some reason right now!).

And just how does a united and active response on Terrorism work? Can you site succesful past examples, like with the IRA for instance, which you did not really offer any support with to us Brits? Where was the united front their? Also you mention past acts, no they are are not the past there is a wing of the (REAL) IRA that is VERY MUCH ALIVE AND ACTIVE, I hope no money comes from America for them. So back to unified attack on terrosism How are Israel's assaults on Palestine helping reduce the terrorism against them? I guess you can keep fighting until they have know one left to fight for them and no land to live on now that [Ih]would[/I] work! I think there is a name for that sort of thing too, can anyone think of the phraise I am looking for?

Oh yeah, Ethnic cleansing! Lets have some Ethnic cleansing round the world and get rid of all these backward nations! Best leave the ones without resources though, you know, North Korea, Zimbabwe etc.. They will be useful in some way we have yet to invent for the next fight...

This is exactly why I didn't want this thread. I knew that it was eventually going to pop up.

Let's just express how all nations in the past have Fuuuuuuuuu..... up the world. Including the Middle East Nations. Who by the way want it to return to it's former Glory.

Who helped who, Who did what were. UK history lesson over American History.

OBL, does not deserve our Bantering. They would prefer all free nations to cower and bow to them. To return to a Islam World is like, having global communism.

In the morning you do this, and you have to marry that person. If you don't act like a good person or do this or that loose a hand or we burn you with gasoline or just wipe out your hole family.

The Truth is the world is in a state of anarchy. It will stay that way until we can live together and be willing to work together. That will not end as long as we have power mongers on the planet.

Some are baby monsters just waiting for the right opportunity, to rise and gain power.

You can kill them over and over but, until people stop behaving like "Monkey's" you will be forced to deal with it.

The world needs to evolve and it will take time. Hopefully not before we destroy it.

 

[3v0]

Why have I crapped on the US? I really would rather you didn't jab at me like that and talk face to face like a MAN.

I was trying to act civil and I am sorry if you see that as unmanly.

If you insist on bringing up the IRA I will respond. Your government could have put an end to that in a heartbeat, all they had to do was act in good faith. The empire mindset seems to have gotten in the way. The US people who funded the IRA were of Irish decent. As far as I know there was no government participation. As I recall some of them were duped into thinking they were funding humanitarian aid, no I can't prove it.

During the cold war the US embraced the notion that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Too a degree it worked to confound the spread of communism but I have reservations about the cost benefit ratio. I would have hoped for a more enlightened solution but have no idea what one might have been.

It is refreshing to see you understand that your country does not have clean hands in these matters. British Petroleum has a long history of manipulation in the middle east and elsewhere.

Credibility in theory is something you earn. Having said that I do not see where any non Muslim country will have any credibility in the middle east so long as radicals there are preaching hate to further their agendas.

Even after the US helped win WWII we did not gain much in the way of credibility. People scoffed and called us profiteers. Even the marshal plan which funded rebuilding after the war did not help. On the other hand I think we get more respect from the average German or Japanese then most of the rest of the world.

If you will recall Saddam Husein was running an ethnic cleansing campaign on the Kurds. The coalition helped stop that. It was also happening in Bosnia. Thinking the UN forces worked to end that.

And just how does a united and active response on Terrorism work? Can you site succesful past examples, like with the IRA for instance,

So because we have yet to do it right we should stop trying ?

Can you even imagine putting you grudges aside and look for a solution.

Have you ever wondered why a nation remain 3rd world while the one next door move ahead. The most common factor at work is a lousy government. The sort that robs the people and builds palaces with foreign aid money intended for economic development.

The same thing is going on in the middle east with oil money. It is very much a case of the money going to a specific group with the right heritage. Even worse when they fund terrorism.

 

[Mickster]

It is refreshing to see you understand that your country does not have clean hands in these matters....

Far from it in fact.

At a point in time, a very large portion of the world map was coloured pink, under the umbrella of the British Empire.

It was all about resources back then and continues to be so to this day.

 

[Reloadron]

I take exception to that sentence, we have lost around 300 of our soldiers fighting in Afghanistan, along side the Americans.

We have had many civilians blown to bits in the UK by these murderous sods.

Every day we live under the threat of terrorist attacks in the UK.

So please get your facts straight before making these callous remarks, we in the UK are part of the EU.

EDIT:
A look thru the latter half of this link will be informative.
List of terrorist incidents in Great Britain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EDIT2:
BBC News - British military deaths in Afghanistan

Looking back to 2005 and today in the UK:

KARLA ADAM, Washington Post

LONDON -- A British judge ruled Friday that failings in the security and emergency services did not contribute to the deaths of the 52 people killed in the al-Qaida-inspired transit bombings during the morning rush hour here on July 7, 2005.

While the verdict in the five-month inquest that the victims were "unlawfully killed" was expected, victims' relatives were anxious to see what role the responses by emergency services and Britain's spy agency played in attacks on three subway trains and a double-decker bus.

Speaking in a packed courtroom at the Royal Courts of Justice in central London, Judge Heather Hallett said that "no failings on the part of any organization or individual caused or contributed to any of the deaths."

The inquest -- standard procedure in Britain if someone dies in a violent or unexplained manner -- began in October and called more than 300 witnesses.

Among the nine recommendations Hallett issued Friday was that Britain's security services should review their use of surveillance photos.

MI5, Britain's domestic intelligence agency, had taken photographs in 2004 of Mohammed Siddique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the four British men responsible for the London bombings. The inquest heard that in 2004 the photos were shown to an informant who knew Khan, but MI5 had edited them so that they were grainy and Khan was missing.

"They were dreadful," Hallett said in her 65-page statement. But she stressed that the evidence "disclosed no failings by the Security Service that could properly be reflected in the verdicts as a contributory cause of the deaths."

In addition to tales of bravery, the inquest heard that ambulances and medical supplies were delayed by the chaos, and that communication was hampered by radios that didn't work underground. However, Hallett said people "would have died whatever time the emergency services reached and rescued them."

She recommended that London's subway system consider providing first-aid equipment on its trains and that various agencies review their funding for emergency care.

""While Hallett said she hoped the inquest would be the last investigation into the attack, some family members called for a full independent inquiry.

Graham Foulkes, whose 22-year-son, David, died at the Edgware Road subway station, said that all of the victims' families he knew wanted an independent inquiry. The inquest examined "about a fifth" of the issues, and a full inquiry "would finally allow us to look at the whole picture," he said.

The UK and the EU in general are far from safe of terrorist attacks. Also as Eric points out the US and GB have been allies for over 100 years.

Now I am far from thrilled with every action my country decides to embark upon or how they go about it. I am sure the same is true of many of my friends across the pond. Everyone here has the right to express their opinion(s). Rights are really a nice to have thing but do come with a cost.

The problem I have with the terrorist is they will not be happy till everyone who fails to see things their way is dead. When they attack non combatant civilians to send their message it becomes time to start eradication of them. Personally I am not real big with taking prisoners with these people. These are not the sort of people you can offer an olive branch to and suggest we all get along and live in peace. The moment you turn away they will shove that olive branch (and likely the whole tree) up your ass as they murder you and your family. Therefore I have no reservations about murdering them and their families.

The death of a few leaders is not going to stop them. Their attacks will continue and have become a way of life.

My Opinion
Ron