Obama bin laden photos?

[HarveyH42]

Monday was kind of a huge surprise, when we all heard the news of bin laden's demise. I could understand the strict secrecy of the intelligence, and the operation, before hand, but the events after the success of the mission leaves me wondering. After securing the compound, and they had control, the ransacked the house, took the body of bin laden, his TV and stereo, among other things, then torch the house, the crashed helicopter, and fled like thieves in the night. Sure, Pakistan didn't want us doing operations in their country, but we were anyway, and nothing much came of it before.

Just kind of seems to me that they spent a lot of time planning the assault, and I don't think live capture was considered an option, but they really didn't seem to plan much on what they were going to do after a successful mission. Removing the body, only to dump it a see, like a bunch of TV mobsters? I could see taking the documents, and storage devices, since Pakistan would have wanted them first, they have terrorist problems as well, but we could have let them conduct there own, more in depth search. Also kind of think that they would have let us recover the crash helicopter, we aren't exactly enemies (although they aren't too happy with us right now). I don't think they would declare war, or commit an act of war on us, since we do have a heavy presence in two neighboring countries, and offshore. No denying we have better toys of war, and nukes are a last desperate option, more of a threat, as there would be no winners.

Why not release the body photos? Gruesome? Has Obama never played violent video games lately? Thousands of people lost their lives, hunting down this one man, from countries around the world. Families and friends of those braves souls, deserve more than words to confirm that there was some purpose to all this. I can't imagine these photos being any worse than so many we've seen over the past 10 years of this war, or the videos of the beheading. Could the solders have gone a little overboard? Maybe added a few inappropriate, personal touches to the body? Something that pretty much everyone would agree, was just plan wrong, and unprofessional?

I'm glad we achieved that one objective, but I don't think it'll change things much, it was just one man, a part of a bigger problem, but the problem is still out there. I just kind of think we aren't being given the entire story here.

 

[3v0]

I expect the more info and documentation there is on the mission the more the terrorists have to use against us.

Not sure on recovering the crashed chopper. Could be that it was SOP for a covert mission.

 

[JimB]

Destroying the helicopter?

It probably had some interesting technology which they did not want anyone else to get their hands on.

JimB

 

[Reloadron]

Me? I figure they (The US Government) got themselves in a damned if you do / damned if you don't type situation. If you release the images you will only further piss off bin Laden's followers and if you don't it continues to be a feeding ground for skeptics. Seems like a no win to me, not that I care much. As to the Pakistan government and the US failure to inform them? The US wanted this guy bad, real bad. They were not about to tip their hand, a hand they were gambling on, and blow their shot (literally).

Just My Take
Ron

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

THe US told Pakistan that they want the helicopter back. The stealth technology is in the tail rotor which did not get blown up. It was intentionally crashed on. Pakistan wants less of a US presence, but I heard that there is only 275 troops in Pakistan and of course, predictively said, "Don't do it again".

If we tried to build something of that nature here, building permits probably wouldn't allow it. They never said what the compound was, but there were lots of women and children there.

Now, apparently there is talk that Pakistan wants to blow up the compound.

It's definately a "Damed if you do or Damed if you don't". I think Obama should have apologized to the Pakistani government.

What's Pakistan going to do? "Declare war"? Whatever our relationship is with Pakistan, it appears to be love-hate. They are risking losing lots of aid.

Food for thought: "What might have happened if OBL was living in Russia?

Just my take.

 

[HarveyH42]

I think the followers will continue to hate use, just as viciously, regardless. I just figure if the put all the cards out there on the table, everyone will be able to just move on. It wasn't really a surprise ending, bin laden knew what would happen if he got caught, and so do his followers, when they get caught. Not releasing the photos and video, will just encourage the creative geeks to produce their own, and enjoy a few minutes of fame, until the hoax is revealed. And each hoax, will stir the whole mess up again, and again. It sort of an irresistible, to produce the best, and longest time before being proven fake. Doubt that will die out quickly.

The Pakistan government would likely have let them haul out the helicopter, not much they could have done, after the operation was completed. They wouldn't want to appear to harboring terrorists, to their own people, their neighbors, or the world. Certainly wouldn't want terrorists to think they are welcome there either. They really wouldn't have much choice, but to let us walk out of there. Wasn't really any need to sneak out afterwards.

 

[Birdman Adam]

Its not too much more than a slap in the face for them, but still a big achievement for us. Its beautiful how we were able to follow him all this time, track his phone, get info on future plans, etc.

They made the right decisions to not release photos. This way we are the simple winners in this situation, not taunting anyone about it. Plus, all the terrorist crazy people would print the pictures all over and worship him and all that... The compound should be destroyed, don't give them anything to worship.

There will be a retaliation. We must continue to beat them down, they won't go die on their own!

 

[BrownOut]

It's remarkable that the world's most dangerous terrorist is taken out by a well-executed military operation, and all some people can do is complain. There is absolutely no reason to show the photos. Their is enough evidence, DNA testing, to show that this terrorist won't be doing any more killing. No reason for any 'victory lap', expecially considering we still have soldiers in the field. Why put anyone in any more harm's way than they already are? There are literally a few thousand doing the deed for millions, and their safety should always come first. So, not showing the photos is the right thing to do. Intelliget people can think for theirselves, and the conspiracy theorists won't be satisfied, no matter what photos are shown. They'll just call them fake and continue to try to sully this acievement.

So, while other's are griping and moaning, take a minute to think about the men who pulled this off. The combat soldies as well as the intelligence people who tracked him down. As well, Obama kept up the hunt, and deserves credit too, even giving credit to Obama when it's due it will go against the popular thing to do on this forum. Obama is taking the time to meet with the families of the victims this week in private, and I'm sure they will understnad that the person most responsible for the loss of their loved ones has finally been laid to rest.

The order was "kill or capture', not just to kill. The soldires were in a fire-fight that lasted 40 minutes with well armed guards. Osama had the opportunity to surrender, but instead he resisted, thus sealing his own fate. It would have been good to capture him, but the next best thing was accomplished. We also have important intelligence assets and information. No, the compound wan't torched, it was left intact. I can watch video of it taken after the raid. "Dumping the body" is a gross mischaracterization ( so is the statement about fleeing like theives in the night; it was a military operation: get in, achieve the objective, get out. What part of that is not understadable?) It was a burial at sea, after a religious ceremony. It's been practiced by the world's navies for centuries. So many false statements about the operation and the soldiers who carried it out. What a sham.

Personally, I feel this is the time for solom relief and satisfaction to see the end of his reign of terror. Thanks to the men and women who have taken the fight to the enemy, and to those who never gave up finding and disposing of the worlds most dangerous people. The SEALS did a terrific job and executed the operation with precision, even in the face of adversity. That was a remarkable dispaly of training, discipline and dedication.

 

[ronv]

I put the pictures in the same category as the nut job preacher that just had to burn the Qur'an. 20 guys died because he did that. I guess he showed em. I wouldn't trade 1 guy in Afghanistan for a peek at those pictures, as much as I'd like to see them.

 

[3v0]

It is a no win thing. You either try to fix world problems and get hated for it or wait around for WWIII to start.

The US has dumped a ton of money into Pakistan over the past decade. If we are not on the same side here why did we do that ?

 

[HarveyH42]

DNA testing, in hours? Thought that only happened on TV, guess the military has all the good stuff these days. A burial at sea, is more commonly done for those who actually die at sea, or specifically request it. We likely face the same retaliation, regardless of whether the photos are shown, it's not got going to make any difference.

Give Obama credit? He spent much of his campaign, and first two years, criticizing the war, and the hunt for bin laden, promising to shut it down, and bring home the troops. Guess now he can, but if had done as promised, in his first year, this would never have gone off. He's been completely against this war, so a little difficult to tell him he did a great job. Would kind of be like him running as a Republican next year, when he goes for a second term. He was pretty much a spectator on the sidelines, doubt he had much to do with any of it. He just hoped for success, and Pakistan didn't get too upset, as we've already been told to quit bringing the fighting over their border several times. The hunt is over, perhaps Obama can now justify the withdraw, but the job is hardly complete. I think bin laden was just one small part, just one man, who got credit for the largest attack, but doubt he was the main problem.

In reality, war is cold, brutal, and gruesome, words just don't describe it well. The results should have been shown, and maybe it would turn more away from following the path of terror. How many would want to be chased for ten years (likely less), to ultimately face a similar fate? Guess there really is no hope in that, for people who willingly strap on bombs, and blow themselves up, daily...

 

[DerStrom8]

Removing the body, only to dump it a see, like a bunch of TV mobsters?

According to what I have heard, dumping the body into the sea was equivalent to our "proper burial." I suppose this was somewhat generous on their part--perhaps hoping to avoid some future conflicts.

Why not release the body photos? Gruesome?

Obama claimed that he does not want to show the pictures because he doesn't want them to be used as trophies. On the other hand, he is still celebrating bin laden's death along with most of the rest of the world, which I don't see as much different. I personally feel the photos should be released and tested for authenticity, just so that everyone can be sure. I don't think Obama's decision has much to do with how grotesque the images may be.
Der Strom

 

[BrownOut]

Like everything else, DNA testing has been continuously improved, and having rapid results isn't farfetched nowadays. A burial at sea is a proper burial, not a dumping, even though he didn't die at sea. There was no reason to bring back the corpse. We have everything we needed. Obama certainly did not criticize the hunt for Bin Laden, and said that he would keep up the hunt as a candidate and during the first two years. He promised to add troops to the Afghanistan campaign, and delivered more troops. He kept on Osama's trail until he found and killed him, just as he said he would. These are the facts, look them up. He certainly deserves credit for this important accomplishment. Yeah, I know it's popular to bash Obama and make up crap about him that plain wrong. So I'm no longer surprised to read flat-out lies on here anymore. Guess people who make this stuff up feel pretty good about their selves for pulling off another fast one, but you can't fool all the people all the time. Personally, I will do whatever I can to expose dishonesty. And I think it would be a mistake for the terrorists to listen to chatter about how Obama isn't interested in pursuing them. One thing this operation proved is that their leadership can be taken out, and it doesn't require thousands of occupying forces to do it. There will be a withdrawal, but the hunt will continue, that I can guarantee.

Obama isn't celebrating death. Is being happy that the world's most dangerous terrorist is no longer able to kill considered a calibration? Is there a blowout party at the White House with party favors and such? That’s baloney. He's doing what a president should do, addressing the victims and the country on this important development that affects everyone. No, that's not the same as holding up the pictures as trophies. The whole subject is absurd, in reality. What is important is the leader of Al-Qaeda is dead, as are many of its other leaders, and the organization has been crippled by the efforts of free people. That's the story, not whether or not we should pander to conspiracy theorists and the morbid curious. Most people have already moved on, and those who hang on to this non-story will only appear foolish, although that never seems to stop some people.

It is a no win thing.

This is a win, no matter how it's spun. One thing that we should recognize is the world is different than it was on 9/11/01. I don't forsee alot of fallout from this operation, in part because it was executed intelligently, but also because the world is a different place now.

 

[Reloadron]

The following is an editorial that ran today in The Cleveland Plain Dealer which is Cleveland, Ohio's major newspaper. The focus is on the photos. While I am not a fan of President Obama I strongly agree with his decisions on this and the leadership he has displayed on this entire matter. I support his position strongly and agree with him.

President Barack Obama made exactly the right call in deciding not to release gruesome visuals of Osama bin Laden's body, denying terrorists their use as propaganda and recruitment tools.

Bin Laden's closest associates know he's gone. A wife, wounded in the leg, reportedly is in Pakistani custody. Among those killed with him at his hideout in an exclusive Pakistani suburb were son Khalid and trusted courier Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who reportedly told neighbors the villa had 12-foot walls because he was a money-changer who needed lots of security.

Pakistanis know he's gone, too. In Peshawar, the frontier city where bin Laden got his start in the 1980s as a fundraiser and terrorist recruiter, a religiously conservative lawyers guild offered prayers for his departed soul before shouting, "Death to the United States."

''''Yes, in a case where precision was important, the president's advisers were not as precise as they needed to be. CIA chief Leon Panetta said Tuesday that he thought a photo ultimately would be released, yet the president had not yet ruled.

In briefing reporters Monday, chief counterterrorism adviser John Brennan made it sound as if bin Laden were armed when he was killed. In fact, he was unarmed but "resisting" in some manner -- possibly because he didn't surrender. That is the only action that would have obligated the Navy SEAL team, under its rules of engagement, to take him alive.

Doubters and conspiracy theorists are inevitable, whether or not there are pictures and immutable accounts of the assault.

"The fact of the matter is," President Obama told CBS News, "you will not see bin Laden walking on this Earth again." And that is a very good thing.

I do believe that US Intelligence did an outstanding job as well as the SEAL team that trained for this mission. Overall I believe the White House has done a very good job. As I said in my previous post I saw the photo issue as damned if you do and damned if you don't. Even if the photos were released there would be the doubters screaming Photoshopped so it becomes a moot point. I loved the closing quote from President Obama.

More of My Take
Ron

 

[3v0]

I am 100% behind what was done, it was a win.

It is my bad in that I started my post with "It is". The rest of the post clarifies what i was talking about.

 

[Mickster]

It's remarkable that the world's most dangerous terrorist is taken out by a well-executed military operation, and all some people can do is complain. There is absolutely no reason to show the photos. Their is enough evidence, DNA testing, to show that this terrorist won't be doing any more killing. No reason for any 'victory lap', expecially considering we still have soldiers in the field. Why put anyone in any more harm's way than they already are? There are literally a few thousand doing the deed for millions, and their safety should always come first. So, not showing the photos is the right thing to do. Intelliget people can think for theirselves, and the conspiracy theorists won't be satisfied, no matter what photos are shown. They'll just call them fake and continue to try to sully this acievement.

So, while other's are griping and moaning, take a minute to think about the men who pulled this off. The combat soldies as well as the intelligence people who tracked him down. As well, Obama kept up the hunt, and deserves credit too, even giving credit to Obama when it's due it will go against the popular thing to do on this forum. Obama is taking the time to meet with the families of the victims this week in private, and I'm sure they will understnad that the person most responsible for the loss of their loved ones has finally been laid to rest.

The order was "kill or capture', not just to kill. The soldires were in a fire-fight that lasted 40 minutes with well armed guards. Osama had the opportunity to surrender, but instead he resisted, thus sealing his own fate. It would have been good to capture him, but the next best thing was accomplished. We also have important intelligence assets and information. No, the compound wan't torched, it was left intact. I can watch video of it taken after the raid. "Dumping the body" is a gross mischaracterization ( so is the statement about fleeing like theives in the night; it was a military operation: get in, achieve the objective, get out. What part of that is not understadable?) It was a burial at sea, after a religious ceremony. It's been practiced by the world's navies for centuries. So many false statements about the operation and the soldiers who carried it out. What a sham.

Personally, I feel this is the time for solom relief and satisfaction to see the end of his reign of terror. Thanks to the men and women who have taken the fight to the enemy, and to those who never gave up finding and disposing of the worlds most dangerous people. The SEALS did a terrific job and executed the operation with precision, even in the face of adversity. That was a remarkable dispaly of training, discipline and dedication.

Everything else I agree with, but not the part in bold. I don't think "the next best thing" was accomplished. I think it was the right thing.

IMHO, having him alive and detained would only serve to incite more reprisals, such as kidnappings and beheadings etc. in an attempt to get him freed.

 

[BrownOut]

While I am not a fan of President Obama I strongly agree with his decisions on this and the leadership he has displayed on this entire matter.

It's good to see members putting country over partasianship.

 

[3v0]

They had known about the hideout for months. Some have suggested the timing was political.

 

[BrownOut]

What timing? It's not October, so no possibility of a October Surprise. There is no significant political timing associated with the date of the operation. Whoever is making that suggestion is doing nothing more than muckraking. Those months were used for intelligence gathering and planning. Knowing 'about' something and getting confirmation are two different things. The compound has been under surveillance for that confirmation, and the SEAL team has been training for the mission using a mockup of the compound. That's how you get well planned and executed operations like this. This is another perfect example of how extreme partisans put politics over their country’s safety and security. They will say or do anything to cast a shadow over the accomplishment, simply because it was Obama who carried it out.

The story is, once again, that the world's most dangerous terrorist was tracked down and killed, not every half-baked dittohead conspiracy theory.

 

[HarveyH42]

Like everything else, DNA testing has been continuously improved, and having rapid results isn't farfetched nowadays. A burial at sea is a proper burial, not a dumping, even though he didn't die at sea. There was no reason to bring back the corpse. We have everything we needed. Obama certainly did not criticize the hunt for Bin Laden, and said that he would keep up the hunt as a candidate and during the first two years. He promised to add troops to the Afghanistan campaign, and delivered more troops. He kept on Osama's trail until he found and killed him, just as he said he would. These are the facts, look them up. He certainly deserves credit for this important accomplishment. Yeah, I know it's popular to bash Obama and make up crap about him that plain wrong. So I'm no longer surprised to read flat-out lies on here anymore. Guess people who make this stuff up feel pretty good about their selves for pulling off another fast one, but you can't fool all the people all the time. Personally, I will do whatever I can to expose dishonesty. And I think it would be a mistake for the terrorists to listen to chatter about how Obama isn't interested in pursuing them. One thing this operation proved is that their leadership can be taken out, and it doesn't require thousands of occupying forces to do it. There will be a withdrawal, but the hunt will continue, that I can guarantee.

Obama isn't celebrating death. Is being happy that the world's most dangerous terrorist is no longer able to kill considered a calibration? Is there a blowout party at the White House with party favors and such? That’s baloney. He's doing what a president should do, addressing the victims and the country on this important development that affects everyone. No, that's not the same as holding up the pictures as trophies. The whole subject is absurd, in reality. What is important is the leader of Al-Qaeda is dead, as are many of its other leaders, and the organization has been crippled by the efforts of free people. That's the story, not whether or not we should pander to conspiracy theorists and the morbid curious. Most people have already moved on, and those who hang on to this non-story will only appear foolish, although that never seems to stop some people.

Guess this was all meant to be insulting, and to belittle me, the usual response I suppose. If I had post something like that, you would have flagged it, and I would have been banned, again. It's bait, you want to play that game again...